Политиките на Бугарија кон Македонија
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А коj ставил Борис I во Св. Наум, туристите?
Во Богородица Перивлепта над входот исто туристите ставиха напдисите. Били тамо бугари и днес ги има и за жал на некои ке продолжи да ги има.
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Читај низ форумов колку ги сакам србите. Хехе.Доколку тоа не било само обична српска пропаганда, Србите би jа добиле воjната од 1885 г. бидеjќи таму се одвивале битките, на подрачjeто на Шопите. Меѓутоа локалните селани ги имат истерано назад сегде божемските витези на кралот Милан. Толку од српската пропаганда коjа шириш.
Дал' си ти можда Србин, ало, брате?
Serbo-Bulgarian War - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Тоа што имало вакви случки не сум јас крив. Појди до архивот во Србија и најди го овој документ. Не тука само да лупаш бугараштини.
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Види jас друго од Русиjа приметив. Се плашам дека се спрема нешто големоалбанско ових дана. Како ги сфаќаш ти таквите предупредувања?
Захарова предупредува дека во Тирана, Скопје и Приштина се спроведуваат активности од „големоалбански“ карактер
Портпаролката на Министерството за надворешни работи на Русиja Мариja Захарова изјави дека е „забележителна зголемената активност во Тирана, Скопје и Приштина со изразен ‘големоалбански’ карактер. Станува збор за обид за постепено формирање на ‘заеднички албански простор’ надвор од правната...
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И сега место со хрватски и бугарски пасош отворени граници, ти одлучи да не учиш историја овде во Македонија
Реално само Србите и Бугарите можеле да направат да бидат 15+ милиони.
Србите им се дешава покољ во прва светска, па и втора светска. Бугарите секоја војна за Македонија им е катастрофа.
Али треба да разбереме, иселените од Македонија во Бугарија учествуваат во крериање на таа политика да се заземе цела Македонија. Исто како што кај нас политиката кон Грција и егејска беше водена од македонци иселени од егејска македонија.
Сега демографски само албанците можат да бидат доминанти ама по се изгледа и тие баталија тоа и фатија патот како сите други накај Европа.
За 50 години тие 600 -700 000 Македонци што ќе се останати овде и тие 2-3 милиона Бугари во Бугарија уште ќе се расправаат
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Разминават ни се календарите, нема што да положи днеска
Но право си, знаат добро и затоа Путин рече не от македонските земи, но не кажа каде били тиja земи
Автоматски споено мислење:
Само да те информирам, дека бугарската нациja почвала да се сформира преди државата. Прва национална институциja ти е академиjaта на науките во 1869 година , преди да има држава . Втора национална ивститециja ти е Екзархиjaта -1870 година, во коja сами на референдум гласавете, па чак после тоа е воjната и формирането на државата
Слободно на попис нека си го кажат бугарскиот идентитет, никој не ги спречува. Само мислам дека нивната бројка во Охрид е непостоечка.
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Изволте западњачки истражувачи:
1.The German Social Democrat Hermann Wendel, who travelled through Macedonia in August and September 1920, systematically asked the people who they were. In Bitola he established that: ‘The Slavs call themselves, as everywhere, Makedonci, standing between Serbs and Bulgarians, [they] can be like this or like that’.15 In Prilep: ‘On the bridge, boys are playing; one is not embarrassed by the questions. “I am a Serb, but those,” and he points to the others, “are Macedonians.” – “Where are you from then?” – “From Nisˇ!”’ And in Resen: ‘Swarms of young boys around the car. “Well, what are you?” Uncomprehending shy looks. “He is a Turk!,” cries the chorus. “So? And you?” – “Macedonians!” they reply like a shot from a pistol’. 1
Edmond Bouchie´ de Belle also confirmed in 1922 that if one asked a Slavic peasant from the area of Ostrovo (in Greece) or Monastir (Bitola, in Yugoslavia), what he is, in nine out of ten cases he replied that he was a Makedon. His conclusion therefore was: [An observer of good faith will classify this population for which the name ‘Macedonian Slavs’ or simply
‘Macedonians’ seems to be the most fitting as separate].’2
R.A. Gallop, Third Secretary at the British Consulate in Belgrade, spent a week in Vardar Macedonia in April 1926 and observed: Those of the latter [Macedo-Slavs] that I met were equally insistent on calling themselves neither Serbs nor Bulgars, but Macedonians . . .There seemed to be no love lost for the Bulgars in most places. Their brutality during the war had lost them the affection even of those who, before the Balkan War, had been their friends. Oliver C. Harvey of the British Foreign Office visited the Greek and Yugoslav parts of Macedonia in April and May 1926 and came to the conclusion:The Slavophone population of Serb Macedonia definitely regard themselves as distinct from the Serbs. If asked their nationality, they say they are ‘Macedonians,’ and they speak the Macedonian dialect. Nor do they identify themselves with the Bulgars, although the latter seem undoubtedly to be regarded as nearer relatives than the Serbs. On the Slavic population in the north-west of Greece he noted: ‘These of course constitute the much advertised “Serb minority.” . . . But they are no more Serb than the Macedonians of Serbia – they speak Macedonian, and
call themselves Macedonians.’3
Colonel A.C. Corfe, the New Zealand president of the mixed Commission of the League of Nations for the Greek-Bulgarian population exchange, reported in 1923, after a journey through western Aegean Macedonia (Greece), that the people there usually said: ‘We are Macedonians, not Greeks
or Bulgars. Give us a good father and we will be good children.We don’t want bands of any sort coming to our villages.We want to be left in peace’.4
1. Ibid., p. 83. Nisˇ lies in Serbia.
2. Edmond Bouchie´ de Belle, La Mace´doine et les Mace´doniens (Paris, 1922), p. 44.
3. ‘The British Foreign Office and Macedonian national identity, 1918–1941’, Slavic Review 53, 1994, pp. 383–4.
4. PRO, FO 371, 8566, Bentinck (Athen) to Curzon, 20 August 1923, Enclosure 4–5.
*Имам уште неколку ќе ги постирам, во друг пост, пошто нема да ги фаќа во еден.
1.The German Social Democrat Hermann Wendel, who travelled through Macedonia in August and September 1920, systematically asked the people who they were. In Bitola he established that: ‘The Slavs call themselves, as everywhere, Makedonci, standing between Serbs and Bulgarians, [they] can be like this or like that’.15 In Prilep: ‘On the bridge, boys are playing; one is not embarrassed by the questions. “I am a Serb, but those,” and he points to the others, “are Macedonians.” – “Where are you from then?” – “From Nisˇ!”’ And in Resen: ‘Swarms of young boys around the car. “Well, what are you?” Uncomprehending shy looks. “He is a Turk!,” cries the chorus. “So? And you?” – “Macedonians!” they reply like a shot from a pistol’. 1
Edmond Bouchie´ de Belle also confirmed in 1922 that if one asked a Slavic peasant from the area of Ostrovo (in Greece) or Monastir (Bitola, in Yugoslavia), what he is, in nine out of ten cases he replied that he was a Makedon. His conclusion therefore was: [An observer of good faith will classify this population for which the name ‘Macedonian Slavs’ or simply
‘Macedonians’ seems to be the most fitting as separate].’2
R.A. Gallop, Third Secretary at the British Consulate in Belgrade, spent a week in Vardar Macedonia in April 1926 and observed: Those of the latter [Macedo-Slavs] that I met were equally insistent on calling themselves neither Serbs nor Bulgars, but Macedonians . . .There seemed to be no love lost for the Bulgars in most places. Their brutality during the war had lost them the affection even of those who, before the Balkan War, had been their friends. Oliver C. Harvey of the British Foreign Office visited the Greek and Yugoslav parts of Macedonia in April and May 1926 and came to the conclusion:The Slavophone population of Serb Macedonia definitely regard themselves as distinct from the Serbs. If asked their nationality, they say they are ‘Macedonians,’ and they speak the Macedonian dialect. Nor do they identify themselves with the Bulgars, although the latter seem undoubtedly to be regarded as nearer relatives than the Serbs. On the Slavic population in the north-west of Greece he noted: ‘These of course constitute the much advertised “Serb minority.” . . . But they are no more Serb than the Macedonians of Serbia – they speak Macedonian, and
call themselves Macedonians.’3
Colonel A.C. Corfe, the New Zealand president of the mixed Commission of the League of Nations for the Greek-Bulgarian population exchange, reported in 1923, after a journey through western Aegean Macedonia (Greece), that the people there usually said: ‘We are Macedonians, not Greeks
or Bulgars. Give us a good father and we will be good children.We don’t want bands of any sort coming to our villages.We want to be left in peace’.4
1. Ibid., p. 83. Nisˇ lies in Serbia.
2. Edmond Bouchie´ de Belle, La Mace´doine et les Mace´doniens (Paris, 1922), p. 44.
3. ‘The British Foreign Office and Macedonian national identity, 1918–1941’, Slavic Review 53, 1994, pp. 383–4.
4. PRO, FO 371, 8566, Bentinck (Athen) to Curzon, 20 August 1923, Enclosure 4–5.
*Имам уште неколку ќе ги постирам, во друг пост, пошто нема да ги фаќа во еден.
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Само да прашам дали сте чули например за Априлско востание ? Што е БРЦК и Левски и дали Гоце Делчев тепа во школото саученик за Левски ?
Второ прашане - коja била столица на Отоманската држава и колко далеку било тоа востание например .
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The tension of the situation in which the Macedonians found themselves, as they had been subjected for decades successively to the representatives of nationalist propaganda from various changing authorities, is demonstrated by
the desperate and resigned words of the father of a schoolchild in eastern Macedonia, who explained to the authorities in 1924:
Don’t expect from me that I feel myself to be a Serb. The Bulgarians have put it into my head for an eternity that I am a Bulgarian. The only thing that I can now say is that I am a Macedonian. Take my children, educate them as Serbs, and they will become Serbs. I have nothing against it. But don’t demand any more from us older people.(1)
The Swiss criminologist and Serbophile Rudolph Archibald Reiss was very explicit in 1918: [In my opinion, one cannot call the Macedonian neither Bulgarian nor Serb, but simply Macedonian]’. A small part of the population had become Serbophile or Bulgarian in spirit (but not in ‘racial’ terms) through the Serbian or Bulgarian Churches respectively. [But I repeat that the big mass of the population remained Macedonian]’.(2)
Swiss female Methodist missionaries in Macedonia in 1938 spoke quite naturally of ‘Macedonians’ and the ‘Macedonian language’. That by this they meant ethnic categories is shown clearly by the fact that one of them, who came from Lausanne, called herself ‘French’ in a conversation with a local Turk and introduced her female colleague from Canton Zu¨rich as a ‘German’.(3)
In addition, it naturally also occurred that people spoke of the
‘Macedonians’ when they meant the entire population of the territory, since there was no other term available for this. On the other hand, nobody would have had the idea, for example, of describing the Albanians or the Turks as
‘Macedonians’. The non-Slavic ethnic groups appear also not to have taken up this designation for themselves; in any case this cannot be found in the sources. The Muslims in Debar, for example, in part described themselves as Albanians, in part as Turks.(4) Only Wendel cites once two Muslims, who say they are Macedonians,(5) although their ethnic identity is not clear, possibly they were indeed Muslim Macedonians.
1. AJ, f. 66, 62/161, 1924, pov. O.N. br. 55, Belgrade, 12 February 1924
2. Rapport du professeur dr R.-A. Reiss de l’universite´ de Lausanne sur la situation des Mace´doniens et des Musulmans dans les nouvelles provinces grecques (Paris, 1918), p. 7.
3. Missionsbote (1938), pp. 35–6: ‘Unsere mazedonische Missionarin berichtet!’; Missionsbote (1944), pp. 82–5: ‘Erlebnisse und Erfahrungen mit der Bibel im Balkan’
4. DARM, 1.1042.10.20/62. Report of the Banovina Administration on schools with Albanian and Turkish children before and after 1912, 18 March 1930.
5. Wendel, Kreuz und quer durch den slawischen Su¨den, p. 77.
the desperate and resigned words of the father of a schoolchild in eastern Macedonia, who explained to the authorities in 1924:
Don’t expect from me that I feel myself to be a Serb. The Bulgarians have put it into my head for an eternity that I am a Bulgarian. The only thing that I can now say is that I am a Macedonian. Take my children, educate them as Serbs, and they will become Serbs. I have nothing against it. But don’t demand any more from us older people.(1)
The Swiss criminologist and Serbophile Rudolph Archibald Reiss was very explicit in 1918: [In my opinion, one cannot call the Macedonian neither Bulgarian nor Serb, but simply Macedonian]’. A small part of the population had become Serbophile or Bulgarian in spirit (but not in ‘racial’ terms) through the Serbian or Bulgarian Churches respectively. [But I repeat that the big mass of the population remained Macedonian]’.(2)
Swiss female Methodist missionaries in Macedonia in 1938 spoke quite naturally of ‘Macedonians’ and the ‘Macedonian language’. That by this they meant ethnic categories is shown clearly by the fact that one of them, who came from Lausanne, called herself ‘French’ in a conversation with a local Turk and introduced her female colleague from Canton Zu¨rich as a ‘German’.(3)
In addition, it naturally also occurred that people spoke of the
‘Macedonians’ when they meant the entire population of the territory, since there was no other term available for this. On the other hand, nobody would have had the idea, for example, of describing the Albanians or the Turks as
‘Macedonians’. The non-Slavic ethnic groups appear also not to have taken up this designation for themselves; in any case this cannot be found in the sources. The Muslims in Debar, for example, in part described themselves as Albanians, in part as Turks.(4) Only Wendel cites once two Muslims, who say they are Macedonians,(5) although their ethnic identity is not clear, possibly they were indeed Muslim Macedonians.
1. AJ, f. 66, 62/161, 1924, pov. O.N. br. 55, Belgrade, 12 February 1924
2. Rapport du professeur dr R.-A. Reiss de l’universite´ de Lausanne sur la situation des Mace´doniens et des Musulmans dans les nouvelles provinces grecques (Paris, 1918), p. 7.
3. Missionsbote (1938), pp. 35–6: ‘Unsere mazedonische Missionarin berichtet!’; Missionsbote (1944), pp. 82–5: ‘Erlebnisse und Erfahrungen mit der Bibel im Balkan’
4. DARM, 1.1042.10.20/62. Report of the Banovina Administration on schools with Albanian and Turkish children before and after 1912, 18 March 1930.
5. Wendel, Kreuz und quer durch den slawischen Su¨den, p. 77.
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Немам појма. Сега гледам на Википедија.
Имаш нешто повеќе да кажиш за тоа од тоа што го има на Википедија?
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Тоа е друга приказна. Свободно на попис во отоманската империja се изjaсниха. Карнегиевата комисиja со лица на Франциja, Гелманиja, Велика Британиja, Русиja исто поминаха па видоха.
Уф И ти најди во Руска црква да се кр'стиш
Еве ги твоите брака што ви подржуват кренаха во Лерин споменник на рускиот војник што го ослободил грчкиот град Лерин и от тогаш грчкиот народ во Лерин бил слободен
