Boeing vs Airbus

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Андроник напиша:
Стварно Маце, немој со пристрасни работи, ако Ербас е синоним за француската тврдоглавост во аеро индустријата, ти не мора да се фалиш со ентериерот и намештајот во него! :icon_lol:
Никој бе не се фали : поентата ми е тоа што луѓево заборавиле да читаат. И реков јас : намерно “пресметки“ праам за да не се возам во Ербас :star:
 
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Macedalien напиша:
Airbus begins A320 Family winglet research programme
5 April 2006

Доказ дека има развој : каков-таков.
"Winglets" ili izvrtuvanjata na krilata go smaluvaat tnr. induktiven otpor. Povekjeto novi avioni denes imaat "winglets". Iskluchok se B777, pa i idniot B787, koi kje imaat tnr. "raked winglets". Funkcioniraat na slichen no poefikasen princip -- povekje go smaluvaat otporot i so toa potroshuvachkata na gorivo, odnosno go zgolemuvaat dometot na avionot.

Shto se odnesuva do tvrdenjeto od tekstot na Macedallien deka Airbus prv pochnal so winglets tehnoloigija, toa mi deluva netochno. A320-100 (prvata i najstara verzija A320 koja ja imaat samo Air France i British) nema winglets:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/986932/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/954442/M/

Isto taka site postari A300 i A310 nemaat winglets.


No winglets, kao opcija, postojat za B737-200:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/766968/M/

Nekoi postari Boingovi avioni isto taka imaat "winglets". Tuka ne se raboti za serisko vgraduvanje, tuku za "tweaking":

Boeing 727:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/992471/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/990980/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/987024/L/

Boeing 757 (Boeing 757-200ET):
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/987426/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/986655/L/
http://www.airliners.ne t/open.file/983224/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/979551/L/

Boeing 737-300:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/981188/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/977640/L/

Eve eden dosta chuden primer: B747-400 bez "winglets":
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/935334/L/
 

A__

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Читав некаде дека Б777 претставува првиот авион компјутерски дизајниран (во целост) што нема воопшто никаква потреба од винглетс, бидејќи самиот дизајн ултимативно е створен за аеродинамика, целата негова композиција.

As part of the NASA ACEE Program, Boeing, Douglas, and Lockheed studied the impact of winglets on near-term derivative aircraft. Boeing’s initial wind-tunnel and design evaluations for the Boeing 747 configuration in May 1977 indicated that the winglet would not provide adequate economic return to the airlines for the cost of fabrication. Despite this early negative assessment, Boeing later adapted winglets to the 747-400, as is discussed in a subsequent section. Lockheed’s studies indicated that extending the wingtips of the L-1011, together with the use of active controls to relieve loads, was a more favorable approach than the use of winglets. Douglas, however, was impressed with the potential benefits of winglets to structurally or span-constrained configurations, and the company proceeded to modify a DC-10 for flight tests.

The C-17 also sports winglets, a technology first applied by today's Boeing—on the 747-400 and MD-11 jetliners. Like all Boeing military jets, the C-17 also benefits from composite brakes, radial tires, and flight-deck warning systems, such as windshear and collision avoidance, that Boeing first used aboard its commercial airplanes.


Winglets помагаат, и се повеќе се имплементираат во модерниве, како и малку постарите модели на авиони. Јас имам слика дека ги додаваат само малку да го подобрат протокот на воздух, не се ништо значително (кај повеќето модели). Кога гледав како ги монтираат кај B744-400 со чукање со огромни гумени чекани од страна и големи клинови...

Еве еден доста нов егзекјутив џет на Ембраер, Lineage 1000, верзија од 190, а не 170/175 како што се очекуваше.

 
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Tochno za B777, iako mozhe da ima "tweaking".

Najgolemata primena za "winglets" ima za B737, koj e vo klasata na A320 spomenat od Macedalien. Se dolzhi na goleminata na avionot i dolzhinata na krilata (36 m) shodno optimumot vo dometot shto go pruzhaat "winglets". Shodno B737 (serija 700,800 i 900) mozhe da bide transatlanski ili da dostigne dosta podolgi relacii. Znachi za B737 dobivkata e dosta golema.

 
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Слики од тестот за евакуација на А380 пред некое време.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=12677
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=12678
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=12679

Маy,10 2006
Airbus has released photographs of the 'virtual first flight' of the A380 it completed yesterday, including the first images of the emergency briefing.The aircraft was boarded with 474 passengers and 20 crew members, who simulated a 5h flight.
The images released by Airbus show the safety briefing, given by a Lufthansa cabin crew accompanied by Airbus cabin trainers.
Airbus says passengers on board the aircraft were given "individual tasks to perform at certain intervals in order to simulate a maximum stress on certain cabin systems". Some passengers brought laptop computers to test the performance of the in-seat power supply (pictured below).
Charles Champion, head of the A380 programme for Airbus says: “The result of the cabin test has shown that all systems were running smoothly. The feedback from our passengers was excellent.”

На тестот бил оваков лејаутот на седиштата
http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=12642
 

Kangaroo

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Sto se odnesuva za slikite za evakuacija , sporde mene nisto toa ne pomaga, vo pocetokot se sejkavam gi citav, demek ako avionot padnel vo voda , kako site eden po eden bezbedno ke izlezele nadvor.... mizi asan da ti baam rabotata e.. da ne se dogodi toa, inaku predocna e za se, bez razlika dali bilo na zemja ili vo voda. sansite da se prezivee se golemi samo ako vo avionot nema kerozin, najmnogu patnici sto se sejkavam deka prezivejale mislam deka bese na eden na letovite na Avianca na relacija Kolumbija (mislam) - New York, avionot go "motaa" povejke od 2 casa gore vo vozduh duri mu dadoa dozvola za sletuvanje, no koga snema gorivo bese predocna za se. Pri udarot avionoot ne se zapali, bidejki nemalo gorivo, zatoa najmnogu preziveale. sekako druga ke bila prikaskata koga ke "lupnel" nad zemja i ke eksplodiral. nekoj od cabin crew preziveale no dzabe bilo koga samo pilotite znaele najdobro sto se slucuvalo vo kabina kaj niv. spored mene jas mislam i spored statistikite najmnogu preziveani ima koj sto sedat kon krajot na opaskata.
Koj znae , nisto ne trae vecno pa ni Airbus A380 nema da bide vecen, eden den i da ne sakame ke cueme deka padnal, ama "slikata" ke bide togas mnogu grozna.
 
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Najinteresno sega e shto kje napravi Airbus: dali kje go trgne celosno A350 od pazarot ili kje go modifikuva za da kupi vreme dodeka ne izmisli i proizvede neshto drugo slednive 10 godini?!?

Steven Udvar-Hazy, verojatno najpriznatiot chovek vo avionskata industrija, izjavi ped malku deka Airbus treba celosno da go trgne A350 i da ponudi nov avion. Cenata za istrazhuvanje i pravenje nov avion mozhe da go chini Airbus megju $8 do $10 milijardi, koi pari sakaat da gi dobijat od dotacii od EU. Boeing kje se bori na sud bezmilosno za da ne im se dozvolat dotacii kako vo razvivanje na drugite avioni.

Visoki pretstavnici na Airbus velat deka razmisluvaat za sugestijata na Udvar-Hazy, no ako ja prifatat toa kje znachi deka nivnatat strategija bila pogreshna od samiot pochetok. Ako pak ne ja prifatat, kje moraat da prifatat deka se porazeni od Boeing.

Na Airbus mu e kazhano deka e najpovolno za Airbus da donese odluka shto e mozhno poskoro, vo slednive 3 meseci.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002896362_boeing29.html

Znachi sostojbata e vakva:

- A380 kje pokrie mal pazar i ne e ekonomichen avion, no verojatno kje isteraat 180 narachki da go opravdaat proektot; za posle kje mu ja mislat posle.

- A350 najverojatno kje go modifikuvaat i kje go nudat rechisi "bez pari" za da osvojat maksimalno 1/4 od pazarot protiv noviot B787 Dreamliner ILI celosno kje go povlechat.

- Slichno so chetirimitorniot A340, verojatno kje ima kozmetichki, a ne sushtinski modifikacii i kje prodolzhi da gubi od dvomotorniot B777 (dodeka ne ponudat neshto novo).

- A320 ostanuva kako adut, no toj pak ima zdrava konkurencija vo najprodavaniot avion na svetot - B737.

Stanuva navistina interesno.
 

Stefanos_M

Moscow_Boy
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Abe i Boeing i Airbus se mnogu dobri. Ama pusta zelba mi ostana so Concord da letam :)
 

A__

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Одлична слика рекетар!

Ако добро препознавам, првиот авион е А320, вториот А340 и третиот А380!
 
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SEATTLE, May 31, 2006 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today begins final assembly of the first 737-900ER (Extended Range), the newest member of the world's most successful single-aisle airplane family. The wings and landing gear shown here are being joined to the 737-900ER fuselage in the Boeing manufacturing facility in Renton, Wash. Last-stage assembly and interiors installation will begin once the airplane joins the moving assembly line. The 737 derivative incorporates an extra pair of exit doors, a flat aft-pressure bulkhead and other structural and aerodynamic changes that allow it to carry more passengers and fly farther than the 737-900. The twin-engine jet can carry up to 215 passengers and fly up to 3,200 nautical miles (5,900 km). The 737-900ER, destined for Indonesian-based launch customer Lion Air, will embark on a five-month flight test program later this year.



Ako saka nekoj da go prevedam tekstot neka kaze.
 
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Eve koja e "dupkata" shto Airbus ne ja popolnuva, odnosno saka da ja popolni so 4ta verzija na eden ist avion - A350:

 
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Interesen article za momentalnite sostojbi so Boeing i Airbus.

Airbus's New Widebody Faces Stiff Headwind By Robert Wall and Jens Flottau 06/11/2006 08:26:11 PM

FITS AND STARTS

Serious questions surround Airbus's plan to revise its twin-widebody strategy. Concerns range from the program's timing, to whether it is targeting the right market segment, to the aircraft maker's ability to actually assemble the airplane.
Airbus is not expected to formally unveil its new design for a few more weeks. The emerging aircraft family would replace plans for the A350, with hope of this time generating broad market interest. Getting it right is critical for Airbus, after botching the A350, which drew extensive criticism from key customers.
The centerpiece of the revised widebody, and also at the heart of current concerns, is the combination of a larger fuselage, higher-thrust engines, delayed in-service date, and increased development cost. In fact, one senior airline executive says one reason the board has not yet endorsed the revision is that development costs will double.
But the price tag can't be the issue, suggests Emirates Airline President Tim Clark. "At the moment, the [Airbus] A340-500 is dead because of the [Boeing] 777-200LR and they know that. If they want to compete with the LR, they can't do a makeover, but they will have to do a new aircraft." And, he adds, "that's a very difficult one to swallow because of the money involved."
But Clark has little sympathy for the dilemma. "We have bought $33 billion worth of aircraft, do you think that worries us? No. You build the damn thing. So if you need to invest another $10 billion in a new aircraft? That's what you are in business to do, do it! You are either in the business or not."
Additionally, Airbus faces some critical logistics challenges with the revised design, which is being transformed from an A330 replacement to an aircraft meant to also leap-frog the A340 family and take on Boeing's popular 787 and 777s. However, the new configuration's larger fuselage isn't compatible with the existing infrastructure Airbus uses to transfer components between its distributed manufacturing sites. The fuselage barrels can't be conveyed from Germany to the French final assembly line using the in-place A300-600ST outsize freighters.
OPTIONS ARE BEING weighed. Among them is establishing a coastal industrial site to assemble the aircraft. Alternatively, Airbus could resort to an A380-inspired surface transportation system. A longer-term fix would be to develop a new transport aircraft, as Boeing is doing for the 787 production process. The problem with the latter option is that the extra-wide logistics aircraft would not be available to support the extremely tight development schedule of the new design. Airbus hopes to bring the aircraft to market in 2012.
That time line already is a concern for some. Qatar Airways, for instance, which has placed the largest commitment for A350s with 60 aircraft, suggests that a lengthy delay in delivery could force it to consider a Boeing alternative.
Aeroflot, too, is finding itself affected by the Airbus uncertainty. The Russian flag carrier has put off until after the Farnborough air show in July its widebody fleet decision to give Airbus time to define its product, says Aeroflot Chairman/CEO Valery Okulov. One of the deciding factors will be how much the redesign will delay the in-service date for the aircraft, he indicates.
But Boeing faces some problems trying to accommodate the demand. Its production slots are sold out through 2010, with 2011 availability dwindling. Marlin Dailey, Boeing Commercial Airplane's vice president of Sales for Europe, is eager to see the company commit to a second production line, arguing that any additional slots that would become available past 2010 could easily be sold. But, he concedes, there are larger issues at stake, including the long-term sustainability of a second line.
Clark, who has been extremely critical of Airbus of late, acknowledges that the manufacturer is making the right decision in scrapping the A350 design. "I was not comfortable that this was the aircraft of the 21st century. I could have perhaps lived with the fuselage, but the rest of the community [clamored for a] 9-abreast arrangement." Clark says a new wing that can deliver Mach 0.85 cruise speed is needed. "You could not live with a wing designed in the mid-80s--good for the time but made for a different performance window."
AND HE SEEMS to endorse Airbus CEO Gustav Humbert's move to step back and thoroughly review the product portfolio before rolling out a new aircraft. "Airbus has a number of issues. They have the A340-500/-600, the A330-200, the A340-300. The quads are an issue, the A330 is an issue because of the 787," Clark says. "Apart from the single-aisle and A380, their whole [product] range has a question mark. So you don't rush into decisions because you are driven by the competition to do it. You sit down and think clearly what your strategy should be for the next 20 years."
But the new Airbus agenda could be problematic, too, industry officials suggest. For instance, if Airbus targets an airframe at the 777-200LR and -300ER, then the aircraft and engines will carry excessive weight when competing in a smaller version 787-8 and 787-9. And the 200-250-seat segment is the true "sweet spot" for the market, according to one Boeing official.
Clark says there may be a different option, optimizing the new aircraft to compete with the 787 and then attacking the 777 family with a third product. "Is there a place for a quad with a new wing, a new fuselage, a new engine? If you come up with what they are proposing . . . where does that leave you between 340 and 550 seats? Is there nothing in the middle? I'm surprised. Not everybody wants the A380, they want something between 350 and 400 seats. The twin will not do everything. The airframe/engine combination will not allow it to carry a 55-ton payload under our rules from Dubai to Los Angeles," Clark points out.
With Pierre Sparaco in Toulouse.
 

Kangaroo

Spirit of Australia
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Za brzo vreme mozebi ke se vozam so MD-11 na Finn Air ama ovoj pat od Bankog pa ke vi kazam kako ke bide, porano mislev oti Boeing na gi modificirase MD-11 vo praksa se pokazaa mnogu odlicni. Slicni kako 747 se. Ok toa otom potom, tuku malce ova e sega OFF TOPIC:

Imav ispiti minative nedeli i eve edeno od prasanjata sto mi se padna, bese za Aerodormot vo Chikago.
Ako imate nekoja ideja resetgo ama ne bese ednostavno iako imase i nekoj ideji navedeni kako da se resi.
Neznam kolku moze da vidite kolku se cita od niv ako nekoj saka moze na email da gi dobije.





 
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Isporakata na A380 povtorno odlozena?! SQ ne se srekni

Airbus A380 hit by new programme delay Airbus A380 hit by new programme delay By Max Kingsley-Jones in Toulouse

The Airbus A380 is facing another serious programme delay, but first delivery to launch operator Singapore Airlines (SIA) is still expected by the end of the year.

Airbus says the delay has been caused by “production ramp-up problems”. It is not expected to impact certification, which is due in the fourth quarter for the handover of the first aircraft to SIA before year end, but will see deliveries of subsequent aircraft slip by “six to seven months”, says Airbus. The programme has already suffered one six month delay, which was announced a year ago and pushed the delivery of the initial Rolls-Royce Trent 900-powered version to SIA back from April to the end of this year.

Other early customers affected by the new delay include Qantas and the lead Engine Alliance-powered A380 operator Emirates, both of whom were due to take their first aircraft early in the second quarter of 2007.

Airbus says the knock-on effect of the slip will be felt on the delivery schedule for production through 2007, 2008 and 2009.
 

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