A
anaveno
Гостин
јас мислам овој егзистирал некаде во ТУРСКИОТ СВЕТ...
е..јеби га...навистина е тешко да се каже од каде е овој...
Потеклото на Албанците
- Креатор на темата SLaCk
- Време на започнување
јас мислам овој егзистирал некаде во ТУРСКИОТ СВЕТ...
е..јеби га...навистина е тешко да се каже од каде е овој...
па ни за фотошоп 
Let 3
The Nipple Erector
- Член од
- 13 јули 2008
- Мислења
- 30.896
- Поени од реакции
- 31.278
Македонец - Македонија Македонски
Илир - Илирија - Илирски
Трачанец - Тракија Тракиски
Дакија - Дакиски Дачани
Албанец - Албанија Албански
Египет - Египќани Египетски
Шќиперија - Шќипетар Шќипетарски
Хрватска Хрвати Хрватски
Словенија Словенци Словенечки
Словаци Словачка Словачки
гледате колку е едноставно. Не треба ни Е во Б ни Р во Т ни И во У па крати па преправи па обратно па наваки натаки..... Секој народ му дал име (назив) на територијата на која живеел. А ако се случило тој народ да биди потиснат - асимилиран - истиснат, новите го носеле своето име, така сега имаме место Илирик - Шќипетарија место Тракија Бугарија место Дакија - Србија ... итн, итн.
А Македонија си остана.
вечно.
Илир - Илирија - Илирски
Трачанец - Тракија Тракиски
Дакија - Дакиски Дачани
Албанец - Албанија Албански
Египет - Египќани Египетски
Шќиперија - Шќипетар Шќипетарски
Хрватска Хрвати Хрватски
Словенија Словенци Словенечки
Словаци Словачка Словачки
гледате колку е едноставно. Не треба ни Е во Б ни Р во Т ни И во У па крати па преправи па обратно па наваки натаки..... Секој народ му дал име (назив) на територијата на која живеел. А ако се случило тој народ да биди потиснат - асимилиран - истиснат, новите го носеле своето име, така сега имаме место Илирик - Шќипетарија место Тракија Бугарија место Дакија - Србија ... итн, итн.
А Македонија си остана.
вечно.
Let 3
The Nipple Erector
- Член од
- 13 јули 2008
- Мислења
- 30.896
- Поени од реакции
- 31.278
Само следи ги имињата и се ќе откриеш. За Албанија - Албанец не треба многу да одиш назат тоа се 100-120 години тука се појавуваат, за Македонец или Македонија треба ехааа 3-4.000 години најмалку да се враќаш наназат.
Промена на физичкиот изглед доаѓа и по природен пат, со промена на начин на живот и на исхрана. Има доста за тоа во литература. Има споредбени показтели во однос на висина, тежина, обем на гради во последните 100 години кои покажуваат за такви промени.
Промена на физичкиот изглед доаѓа и по природен пат, со промена на начин на живот и на исхрана. Има доста за тоа во литература. Има споредбени показтели во однос на висина, тежина, обем на гради во последните 100 години кои покажуваат за такви промени.
A
Ali Pasha
Гостин
Што бидна со мојот пријател од Струмица, ни слика, ни трага ни глас од таксиратлијата. Очигледно ни тој не можел да даде одговор за потеклото на Албанците. Само да ми е чудно дека едно чудо слики останале не избришани и со доста непристојни коментари, а кога некој ќе стави малку иронија во целата дискусија,гледам веднаш избришани постови. Ако сте конзистенти до правилата, барем бидете до крај.
Или како беше тоа : Член 1:Царот е секогаш во право. Член 2: Ако царот случајно не е во право, читај го член 1
п.с. за тие што не го знаат таксиратлијата од Струмица
Или како беше тоа : Член 1:Царот е секогаш во право. Член 2: Ако царот случајно не е во право, читај го член 1
п.с. за тие што не го знаат таксиратлијата од Струмица
- Член од
- 5 февруари 2007
- Мислења
- 10.707
- Поени од реакции
- 13.379
Мал офтопик. До некаде не би се сложил со ова... Што е со Франција? Франките ли се виновни што таа денес така се вика? Нели Англичаните држеле подоцна голем дел од неа? Или еве полесен пример - Германија... Имаш таму готи, Тевтонци, франки (и тука се присутни мамата) и сто и друга тралалајка. Исто и за србите. Не е ли Дакиа посеверно од Рашка - првото српско кралство?
Let 3
The Nipple Erector
- Член од
- 13 јули 2008
- Мислења
- 30.896
- Поени од реакции
- 31.278
Англичаните не се населиле масовно па да го сменат името (иако остатоци на англиското владеење го имаме во називот БРЕТАЊА во Франција, Германија ја викаме ние некој ја вика Немачка некој Алеманија порано ја викаа Швапска а тие си ја викаат Дојчланд. Таму живееа разни народи од исто потекло (Германи) како Алемани Сакси Шваби по кои и денес носат називи области или делови на Германија. Значи тука се работи за заедница на племиња од разни народи (како што имавме Југословени и Југославија) али внатре во самата Германија си постојат Саксонија, Тиргија, имааа до скоро Прусија (сега Берлин) ... значи се гледа кој живеел таму (сакси, Алемани, Тиргијци, Пруси.
Рашка е кралество Рашка пред Србите да се оформат како нација и да си дефинираат територија. Тоа беа словенски племиња кои се населиле и си живеелее во свои жупании од кои едната се издигнала над останатите и добила облик на крластво т.н. Рашка. Но во историјата жителите на Рашка беа нарекувани Рашани а не Срби. Значи тоа е кралство на едно од словенски племиња кои покасно се оформиле како Срби а не дека биле национално свесни дека се Срби. Разни жупании и мали кралества настануваа во тој период на настанување на Српската нација така имаме Дукља и Дукљани и за нив се вели дека се Срби па Зета - и за нив велат дека биле Срби, па Рашка - и за нив велат дека се Срби.....
Слично како и Албанците и Србите поминаа еден период на создавање на своја нација и држава и дефинирање на името.
Picasso`
Schizophrenic!
- Член од
- 26 јануари 2007
- Мислења
- 4.149
- Поени од реакции
- 197
Ajnaveno се исплаши тука да дебатира, па си кажа чек ќе одам на мој блог и ќе куцам глупости, ќе стаам слики, а сликата вреди илјада и една рјеч и така ќе ги праам србите да уживаат во моите "откритија", а на крај ако некој Аљбанац куцне нешто на блогот ќе го избришам.
Порака до него: Не се курчи со блогови, дан наредам да ти го паднат, биди маж како што си двотактен, и тука, таму каде што оние кои се компетентни го кажуваат тоа ШТО ВЧЕРА ГО ПОСТИРАВ, а ти како ФРЧКО, му ја ФРЧНА.
За Албанополис
This is the most shameless claim which doesn’t deserve any answer at all. Look at the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World, (ISBN 0-691-03169-X)
АРХЕОЛОЗИТЕ ВИКААТ ВАКА!
Ти се најде најкурназ, па да го негираш тоа?
Археолозите од цел свет грешат, ти си во право!?
FACT-SHQIPTAR=TATAR=BULGAR=MAGYAR=KHANDAHAR
FACT-People from Asia spell this.
This claim comes from someone whose profanity in linguistics is clearly evident. In one sentence he contradict himself several times, but the worst of all claiming that Albanian has borrowed 80 % of its dictionary from the IE languages and those are integrated as adstratum in an altaic language structure makes no sense at all.
To prove that he brings as an argument some Albanian suffixes (which telling the truth are present in many IE languages and not only in Albanian) forgeting or simply not knowing that the suffixes are of third hand importance on concluding someone language origin.
Let’s trash once for all his “”argument”:
Albanian ______________English
Hungarez-----------------Hungarian
Bullgar--------------------Bulgarian
Khazarian-----------------Khasarian
Ilirian----------------------Illyrian
Is English an Altaic language? I don’t think so.
When it comes to phonology his ignorance is tremendous. He equavalents the phoneme ch to sh, let alone the fact that he truly proves not having minimal knowledge about Albanian language when he says : ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA.
No my dear fellow ALBANIA=ARBNIA or Shqipëria or Arbëria, and we call ourselves Arbër
Порака до него: Не се курчи со блогови, дан наредам да ти го паднат, биди маж како што си двотактен, и тука, таму каде што оние кои се компетентни го кажуваат тоа ШТО ВЧЕРА ГО ПОСТИРАВ, а ти како ФРЧКО, му ја ФРЧНА.
За Албанополис
This is the most shameless claim which doesn’t deserve any answer at all. Look at the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World, (ISBN 0-691-03169-X)
АРХЕОЛОЗИТЕ ВИКААТ ВАКА!
Ти се најде најкурназ, па да го негираш тоа?
Археолозите од цел свет грешат, ти си во право!?
FACT-SHQIPTAR=TATAR=BULGAR=MAGYAR=KHANDAHAR
FACT-People from Asia spell this.
This claim comes from someone whose profanity in linguistics is clearly evident. In one sentence he contradict himself several times, but the worst of all claiming that Albanian has borrowed 80 % of its dictionary from the IE languages and those are integrated as adstratum in an altaic language structure makes no sense at all.
To prove that he brings as an argument some Albanian suffixes (which telling the truth are present in many IE languages and not only in Albanian) forgeting or simply not knowing that the suffixes are of third hand importance on concluding someone language origin.
Let’s trash once for all his “”argument”:
Albanian ______________English
Hungarez-----------------Hungarian
Bullgar--------------------Bulgarian
Khazarian-----------------Khasarian
Ilirian----------------------Illyrian
Is English an Altaic language? I don’t think so.
When it comes to phonology his ignorance is tremendous. He equavalents the phoneme ch to sh, let alone the fact that he truly proves not having minimal knowledge about Albanian language when he says : ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA.
No my dear fellow ALBANIA=ARBNIA or Shqipëria or Arbëria, and we call ourselves Arbër
Picasso`
Schizophrenic!
- Член од
- 26 јануари 2007
- Мислења
- 4.149
- Поени од реакции
- 197
See the attached Word file for the frequency and variance maps for V13 and J2b2-M241 from this study. The variance peaks in Split Croatia for V13 and has a lesser peak around Konya, Turkey. The actual calculated age (based on variance) in Konya was 9.4 kya (+/-2.9) compared with 9.2 kya (+/-4.3). There is no meaningful difference in these two calculations. The variance for J2b2 (which Cruciani has identified as V13's brother clade within the population of the Balkans) peaks at Konya also, at 10.1 kya (+/-3.4). This would appear to be a single population with two clades making up the male portion. Catal-Hoyuk is not far from Konya. It's my opinion that they have found the origin of V13/M241 (Catal Hoyuk region) but don't like the resulting conclusion. I doubt seriously that V13 and J2b2 arose simultaneously and separately in two regions of the near east at exactly the same time. Ergo, they came from the location where both variances peaked: near Konya, Turkey.
Combining the King et al and Battaglia et al papers, a highly speculative sequence of settlement can be developed:
1. Catal-Hoyuk (10.1-10.4 kya) - 8400-8100 B.C. - the Neolithic revolution is founded
within a few centuries, overpopulation occurs
2. People spread out to several other locations: Lerna/Franchthi, Split, Corfu, Sicily, Apulia. (Initial Neolithic, 9-10 kya)
(Sicily turns out to be quite old in both clades; older than Greece BTW, about 10.0 kya for M241. I have calculated a similar ASD age for V13 in Sicily.
)
3. Other settlements appears: Nea Nikomedeia, Maliq, Starcevo, etc. (8.6 kya) - this is the main wave of the Early Neolithic in the Balkans
4. The proto-Greeks finally make the scene in Sesklo-Dimini (about 4.3 kya) - but they may have migrated there from Lerna, following the House of Tiles destruction (about the same time)?
The Albanians appear to emerge as the oldest population in the Balkans outside of Lerna, with the exception of Split, Croatia, which is almost as far south as Montenegro anyway. The variance table shows clearly that V13 spread from west to east and from north to south in the western Balkans. Given the associations, I am of the opinion that the Albanian V13 in the Vardar-Morava corridor is derived from the Illyrian population.
Since Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia were ignored completely in this study, I can't say whether those folks (clearly within Thracian and Dacian regions) are older, younger or the same age as the Illyrian V13/M241 populations. Mocsy held that the population west of the Vardar-Morava valleys were Illyrian and east of the same valley were Thracian. Perhaps he was exactly correct.
I think that I may have found a way to test my Roman hypothesis, however. Back to the spreadsheets!
Steve
http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=999.15
Е сега цицниго, и ШМУКНИГО.
Хаха има ставено офчичката карта на Србија, каде се гледа и Македонија дека е под Србска окупација...
Аххх бе... Македонче бе...
Combining the King et al and Battaglia et al papers, a highly speculative sequence of settlement can be developed:
1. Catal-Hoyuk (10.1-10.4 kya) - 8400-8100 B.C. - the Neolithic revolution is founded
within a few centuries, overpopulation occurs
2. People spread out to several other locations: Lerna/Franchthi, Split, Corfu, Sicily, Apulia. (Initial Neolithic, 9-10 kya)
(Sicily turns out to be quite old in both clades; older than Greece BTW, about 10.0 kya for M241. I have calculated a similar ASD age for V13 in Sicily.
3. Other settlements appears: Nea Nikomedeia, Maliq, Starcevo, etc. (8.6 kya) - this is the main wave of the Early Neolithic in the Balkans
4. The proto-Greeks finally make the scene in Sesklo-Dimini (about 4.3 kya) - but they may have migrated there from Lerna, following the House of Tiles destruction (about the same time)?
The Albanians appear to emerge as the oldest population in the Balkans outside of Lerna, with the exception of Split, Croatia, which is almost as far south as Montenegro anyway. The variance table shows clearly that V13 spread from west to east and from north to south in the western Balkans. Given the associations, I am of the opinion that the Albanian V13 in the Vardar-Morava corridor is derived from the Illyrian population.
Since Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia were ignored completely in this study, I can't say whether those folks (clearly within Thracian and Dacian regions) are older, younger or the same age as the Illyrian V13/M241 populations. Mocsy held that the population west of the Vardar-Morava valleys were Illyrian and east of the same valley were Thracian. Perhaps he was exactly correct.
I think that I may have found a way to test my Roman hypothesis, however. Back to the spreadsheets!
Steve
http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=999.15
Е сега цицниго, и ШМУКНИГО.
Хаха има ставено офчичката карта на Србија, каде се гледа и Македонија дека е под Србска окупација...
Аххх бе... Македонче бе...
Picasso`
Schizophrenic!
- Член од
- 26 јануари 2007
- Мислења
- 4.149
- Поени од реакции
- 197
За сево ова биде појасно, јас на Ajnaveno ќе му кажам некои мали вистини.
Steeped in animal, elementel and fantastic imagery an naïve and hateful serbian propaganda doesn’t really deserve any special attention. Full of nonsenses, microscopic arguments this propaganda creates an idea that written by a former sheep farm custodian, is trying to flip over all the overhelming historical-lingustic evidences in regards of Albanians history and culture. This “album” of many altered truths is created by a diabolic mind, but at the same time champion on mediocrity.
The entire propaganda is a pathetic praising for the Serbian culture and a charge for the Albanian one. But, the only charge against Albanian culture is being Albanian.
The denial logic used by this propaganda-writer former shepherd, is trying to convince the entire World that “””Albanian Academy of Science and Albanology””” has built forgeries for the last 200 years which convinced the entire world, disregarding the fact that our presumed institution of propaganda is new, apathic and until few decades ago was working upon Western scholars thesis. Albanian never had a sophisticated propaganda instrument; their voice was not taken seriosly inside the important academic institution around the World. Therefore the aliby that Serbian propaganda tries to spread for itself is pathetic and shameless.
The truth is that Serbian propaganda has been 1000 times more efective compared to all Albanian authoritatives and non in regards of Albanian history. Serbian propaganda is exeptional on building myths, altering truth, and imposing this altered truth to the foreigners, this also based on favorable political situation of the Serbian state.
In their profitable game this propaganda comes up with all kind of wild theories which need to be trashed. So let’s go in the details.
First of all this article doesn’t show sources for its voluminous quantity of information. Being so every academical institution will automatically disregard it, but this time we will work on it to show to the opinion how unfounded, stupid, ridicilous a mind sounds when its only interest is to spread nacionalistic hate against other races and cultures.
First claim
a) The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.
Response
That’s false, here it is a document belonging to the early 11 century:
1000-1018
Fragment on the Origins of Nations
What is the earliest written reference to the Albanians is that to be found in an old Bulgarian text compiled around the beginning of the eleventh century. It was discovered in a Serbian manuscript dated 1628 and was first published in 1934 by Radoslav Grujic. This fragment of a legend from the time of Tsar Samuel endeavours, in a catechismal 'question and answer' form, to explain the origins of peoples and languages. It divides the world into seventy-two languages and three religious categories: Orthodox, half-believers (i.e. non-Orthodox Christians) and non-believers. Though the Serbs go unmentioned, the Albanians, still a small conglomeration of nomadic mountain tribes at this time, find their place among the nations of half-believers. If we accept the dating of Grujic, which is based primarily upon the contents of the text as a whole, this would be the earliest written document referring to the Albanians as a people or language group.
Extract from: Radoslav Grujic: Legenda iz vremena Cara Samuila o poreklu naroda. in: Glasnik skopskog naucnog drustva, Skopje, 13 (1934), p. 198 200. Translated from the Old Church Slavonic by Robert Elsie
It can be seen that there are various languages on earth. Of them, there are five Orthodox languages: Bulgarian, Greek, Syrian, Iberian (Georgian) and Russian. Three of these have Orthodox alphabets: Greek, Bulgarian and Iberian. There are twelve languages of half-believers: Alamanians, Franks, Magyars (Hungarians), Indians, Jacobites, Armenians, Saxons, Lechs (Poles), Arbanasi (Albanians), Croatians, Hizi, Germans.
The fact the Serbs go unmentioned is significant and it’s not a coincidence, because the Serbs are not really a nation, their nobles families were simply noble Albanians families while the Serbian language was created for liturgic and aristocratic purposes.
As the matter of facts, the former national name of Albanians was Arbôn(geg) Arber(tosk),and we find it in this book
It Correspondes exactly with the name of the people in the same place Dyrracium,
In the 2nd century BC, the History of the World written by Polybius, mentions a city named Arbon in present day central Albania. The people who lived there were called Arbanios and Arbanitai.
Of the Illyrian troops engaged in blockading Issa, those that belonged to Pharos were left unharmed, as a favour to Demetrius; while all the rest scattered and fled to Arbon. Teuta herself, with a very few attendants, escaped to Rhizon, a small town very strongly fortified, and situated on the river of the same name. Having accomplished all this, and having placed the greater part of Illyria under Demetrius, and invested him with a wide dominion, the Consuls retired to Epidamnus with their fleet and army.
. [14] ἐκυρίευσαν δὲ καὶ λέμβων εἴκοσι τῶν ἀποκομιζόντων τὴν ἐκ τῆς χώρας ὠφέλειαν. [15] τῶν δὲ πολιορκούντων τὴν Ἴσσαν οἱ μὲν ἐν τῇ Φάρῳ διὰ τὸν Δημήτριον ἀβλαβεῖς ἔμειναν, οἱ δ' ἄλλοι πάντες ἔφυγον εἰς τὸν Ἄρβωνα σκεδασθέντες. [16] ἡ δὲ Τεύτα πάνυ μετ' ὀλίγων εἰς τὸν Ῥίζονα διεσώθη, πολισμάτιον εὖ πρὸς ὀχυρότητα κατεσκευασμένον, ἀνακεχωρηκὸς μὲν ἀπὸ τῆς θαλάττης, ἐπ' αὐτῷ δὲ κείμενον τῷ Ῥίζονι ποταμῷ. [17] ταῦτα δὲ πράξαντες καὶ τῷ Δημητρίῳ τοὺς πλείστους ὑποτάξαντες τῶν Ἰλλυριῶν καὶ μεγάλην αὐτῷ περιθέντες δυναστείαν ἀνεχώρησαν εἰς τὴν Ἐπίδαμνον ἅμα τῷ στόλῳ καὶ τῇ πεζικῇ δυνάμει.
And after that few hundreds years later it’s another prestigious historian Ptolemy, who gives the same name Ἄρβωνα and location on his map.
Claim 2
b)Language:
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Response
Albanian has been fully proven to be IE language, with the specific having paleobalkan roots, and the altered truth that nobody hasn’t study Caucasus languages has nothing to do with Albanian language because the linguists followed rigorous criterias when they built the IE languages tree.
Claim 3
Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo-European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.
The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Response
This claim comes from someone whose profanity in linguistics is clearly evident. In one sentence he contradict himself several times, but the worst of all claiming that Albanian has borrowed 80 % of its dictionary from the IE languages and those are integrated as adstratum in an altaic language structure makes no sense at all.
To prove that he brings as an argument some Albanian suffixes (which telling the truth are present in many IE languages and not only in Albanian) forgeting or simply not knowing that the suffixes are of third hand importance on concluding someone language origin.
Let’s trash once for all his “”argument”:
Albanian ______________English
Hungarez-----------------Hungarian
Bullgar--------------------Bulgarian
Khazarian-----------------Khasarian
Ilirian----------------------Illyrian
Is English an Altaic language? I don’t think so.
When it comes to phonology his ignorance is tremendous. He equavalents the phoneme ch to sh, let alone the fact that he truly proves not having minimal knowledge about Albanian language when he says : ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA.
No my dear fellow ALBANIA=ARBNIA or Shqipëria or Arbëria, and we call ourselves Arbër
Claim 4
c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters until 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.
Response
This stupid claim, I will trash with 2 pictures(I could bring thousands of them) belonging to 2 books written in Albanian respectivaly in 1821 and the other 29. December. 1860:
Claim 4
d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Romanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
Response
First, you don’t know if these are borrowing or not
Second, in case they are, you don’t know who borrowed from whom
Third, what do you know about Illyrian, and if you have in mind the Messapian you will get the answer in the following responses.
Claim 5
e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.
Response
Another unfounded claim. No examples, no arguments why the borrowing is one way and not the other way.
At least 90% of maritime dictionary in Albanian is original.
Claim 6
f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.
Response
Albanian didn’t need to borrow from Ancient Greek because, this last one is just an old Albanian dialect, and you can’t borrow from yourself. Just visit Arbenia.com to find hundreds of similar words between A. Greek and Albanian and not just few like you are primitively lying or simply not knowing.
Claim 7
g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
(Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran)
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Response
The place-names are a minimal indication in regards of someone ethnicity, but I will stop a little bit on the first one:
Arnaut is a Turkish word, it’s the name by which the Turkish call Albanians. It’s a corruption of the word Arvanite(Greek: Αρβανίτες, Arvanitika: Arbëreshë or Αρbερεσε) which by itself is a corruption of the Albanian word Arban-it since b is pronounced v (like vital) sound in Greek language. So it doesn't have relation at all with what you claim.Therefore your so called evidences are simply some other trash.
Claim 8
Albo-Albanci Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Response
Your naïve babling here, proves another time that your ignorance about Albanian language, let alone making a comparative linguistic analise.
Steeped in animal, elementel and fantastic imagery an naïve and hateful serbian propaganda doesn’t really deserve any special attention. Full of nonsenses, microscopic arguments this propaganda creates an idea that written by a former sheep farm custodian, is trying to flip over all the overhelming historical-lingustic evidences in regards of Albanians history and culture. This “album” of many altered truths is created by a diabolic mind, but at the same time champion on mediocrity.
The entire propaganda is a pathetic praising for the Serbian culture and a charge for the Albanian one. But, the only charge against Albanian culture is being Albanian.
The denial logic used by this propaganda-writer former shepherd, is trying to convince the entire World that “””Albanian Academy of Science and Albanology””” has built forgeries for the last 200 years which convinced the entire world, disregarding the fact that our presumed institution of propaganda is new, apathic and until few decades ago was working upon Western scholars thesis. Albanian never had a sophisticated propaganda instrument; their voice was not taken seriosly inside the important academic institution around the World. Therefore the aliby that Serbian propaganda tries to spread for itself is pathetic and shameless.
The truth is that Serbian propaganda has been 1000 times more efective compared to all Albanian authoritatives and non in regards of Albanian history. Serbian propaganda is exeptional on building myths, altering truth, and imposing this altered truth to the foreigners, this also based on favorable political situation of the Serbian state.
In their profitable game this propaganda comes up with all kind of wild theories which need to be trashed. So let’s go in the details.
First of all this article doesn’t show sources for its voluminous quantity of information. Being so every academical institution will automatically disregard it, but this time we will work on it to show to the opinion how unfounded, stupid, ridicilous a mind sounds when its only interest is to spread nacionalistic hate against other races and cultures.
First claim
a) The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.
Response
That’s false, here it is a document belonging to the early 11 century:
1000-1018
Fragment on the Origins of Nations
What is the earliest written reference to the Albanians is that to be found in an old Bulgarian text compiled around the beginning of the eleventh century. It was discovered in a Serbian manuscript dated 1628 and was first published in 1934 by Radoslav Grujic. This fragment of a legend from the time of Tsar Samuel endeavours, in a catechismal 'question and answer' form, to explain the origins of peoples and languages. It divides the world into seventy-two languages and three religious categories: Orthodox, half-believers (i.e. non-Orthodox Christians) and non-believers. Though the Serbs go unmentioned, the Albanians, still a small conglomeration of nomadic mountain tribes at this time, find their place among the nations of half-believers. If we accept the dating of Grujic, which is based primarily upon the contents of the text as a whole, this would be the earliest written document referring to the Albanians as a people or language group.
Extract from: Radoslav Grujic: Legenda iz vremena Cara Samuila o poreklu naroda. in: Glasnik skopskog naucnog drustva, Skopje, 13 (1934), p. 198 200. Translated from the Old Church Slavonic by Robert Elsie
It can be seen that there are various languages on earth. Of them, there are five Orthodox languages: Bulgarian, Greek, Syrian, Iberian (Georgian) and Russian. Three of these have Orthodox alphabets: Greek, Bulgarian and Iberian. There are twelve languages of half-believers: Alamanians, Franks, Magyars (Hungarians), Indians, Jacobites, Armenians, Saxons, Lechs (Poles), Arbanasi (Albanians), Croatians, Hizi, Germans.
The fact the Serbs go unmentioned is significant and it’s not a coincidence, because the Serbs are not really a nation, their nobles families were simply noble Albanians families while the Serbian language was created for liturgic and aristocratic purposes.
As the matter of facts, the former national name of Albanians was Arbôn(geg) Arber(tosk),and we find it in this book
It Correspondes exactly with the name of the people in the same place Dyrracium,
In the 2nd century BC, the History of the World written by Polybius, mentions a city named Arbon in present day central Albania. The people who lived there were called Arbanios and Arbanitai.
Of the Illyrian troops engaged in blockading Issa, those that belonged to Pharos were left unharmed, as a favour to Demetrius; while all the rest scattered and fled to Arbon. Teuta herself, with a very few attendants, escaped to Rhizon, a small town very strongly fortified, and situated on the river of the same name. Having accomplished all this, and having placed the greater part of Illyria under Demetrius, and invested him with a wide dominion, the Consuls retired to Epidamnus with their fleet and army.
. [14] ἐκυρίευσαν δὲ καὶ λέμβων εἴκοσι τῶν ἀποκομιζόντων τὴν ἐκ τῆς χώρας ὠφέλειαν. [15] τῶν δὲ πολιορκούντων τὴν Ἴσσαν οἱ μὲν ἐν τῇ Φάρῳ διὰ τὸν Δημήτριον ἀβλαβεῖς ἔμειναν, οἱ δ' ἄλλοι πάντες ἔφυγον εἰς τὸν Ἄρβωνα σκεδασθέντες. [16] ἡ δὲ Τεύτα πάνυ μετ' ὀλίγων εἰς τὸν Ῥίζονα διεσώθη, πολισμάτιον εὖ πρὸς ὀχυρότητα κατεσκευασμένον, ἀνακεχωρηκὸς μὲν ἀπὸ τῆς θαλάττης, ἐπ' αὐτῷ δὲ κείμενον τῷ Ῥίζονι ποταμῷ. [17] ταῦτα δὲ πράξαντες καὶ τῷ Δημητρίῳ τοὺς πλείστους ὑποτάξαντες τῶν Ἰλλυριῶν καὶ μεγάλην αὐτῷ περιθέντες δυναστείαν ἀνεχώρησαν εἰς τὴν Ἐπίδαμνον ἅμα τῷ στόλῳ καὶ τῇ πεζικῇ δυνάμει.
And after that few hundreds years later it’s another prestigious historian Ptolemy, who gives the same name Ἄρβωνα and location on his map.
Claim 2
b)Language:
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Response
Albanian has been fully proven to be IE language, with the specific having paleobalkan roots, and the altered truth that nobody hasn’t study Caucasus languages has nothing to do with Albanian language because the linguists followed rigorous criterias when they built the IE languages tree.
Claim 3
Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo-European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.
The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Response
This claim comes from someone whose profanity in linguistics is clearly evident. In one sentence he contradict himself several times, but the worst of all claiming that Albanian has borrowed 80 % of its dictionary from the IE languages and those are integrated as adstratum in an altaic language structure makes no sense at all.
To prove that he brings as an argument some Albanian suffixes (which telling the truth are present in many IE languages and not only in Albanian) forgeting or simply not knowing that the suffixes are of third hand importance on concluding someone language origin.
Let’s trash once for all his “”argument”:
Albanian ______________English
Hungarez-----------------Hungarian
Bullgar--------------------Bulgarian
Khazarian-----------------Khasarian
Ilirian----------------------Illyrian
Is English an Altaic language? I don’t think so.
When it comes to phonology his ignorance is tremendous. He equavalents the phoneme ch to sh, let alone the fact that he truly proves not having minimal knowledge about Albanian language when he says : ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA.
No my dear fellow ALBANIA=ARBNIA or Shqipëria or Arbëria, and we call ourselves Arbër
Claim 4
c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters until 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.
Response
This stupid claim, I will trash with 2 pictures(I could bring thousands of them) belonging to 2 books written in Albanian respectivaly in 1821 and the other 29. December. 1860:
Claim 4
d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Romanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
Response
First, you don’t know if these are borrowing or not
Second, in case they are, you don’t know who borrowed from whom
Third, what do you know about Illyrian, and if you have in mind the Messapian you will get the answer in the following responses.
Claim 5
e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.
Response
Another unfounded claim. No examples, no arguments why the borrowing is one way and not the other way.
At least 90% of maritime dictionary in Albanian is original.
Claim 6
f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.
Response
Albanian didn’t need to borrow from Ancient Greek because, this last one is just an old Albanian dialect, and you can’t borrow from yourself. Just visit Arbenia.com to find hundreds of similar words between A. Greek and Albanian and not just few like you are primitively lying or simply not knowing.
Claim 7
g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
(Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran)
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Response
The place-names are a minimal indication in regards of someone ethnicity, but I will stop a little bit on the first one:
Arnaut is a Turkish word, it’s the name by which the Turkish call Albanians. It’s a corruption of the word Arvanite(Greek: Αρβανίτες, Arvanitika: Arbëreshë or Αρbερεσε) which by itself is a corruption of the Albanian word Arban-it since b is pronounced v (like vital) sound in Greek language. So it doesn't have relation at all with what you claim.Therefore your so called evidences are simply some other trash.
Claim 8
Albo-Albanci Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Response
Your naïve babling here, proves another time that your ignorance about Albanian language, let alone making a comparative linguistic analise.
Picasso`
Schizophrenic!
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Claim 9
h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of communicating with each other.
(that does sound stupid don't you think?)
Response
As the matter of fact judging from the Messapic inscription, we do have a total correspondance of the words, between Albanian and Messapic. So you are boumeranging yourself.
Claim 10
The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore.
Response
What do you know about Albanian sound change laws?
Aulona my friend had been considered a Greek word Aulon (Greek: Αὐλῶν Aulôn) and not a Latin one and it’s a word at least 2500 years old. As the matter of fact it correspondes entirely to the Albanian word Vlona (geg) and Vlora (tosk) since in Greek it is pronounced A-vlona. It derives from the Albanian word vlon which means boil and this city is one of the warmest in Europe where the temperature hardly goes below zero.
Claim 11
j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe)
Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava
Ptolemy's Geography can be found at :
penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html
Response
This is the most shameless claim which doesn’t deserve any answer at all. Look at the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World, (ISBN 0-691-03169-X)
Claim 12
There is NO MEMORY of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage.
Response
There is a lot to everyone who doesn’t want to close the eyes.
Claim 13
p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development.
Response
This dictionary undeniably proves that Albanians are the Ancient Epirotes, and by that time the name ARBEN was in use randomly, and our Homeland has been called by us Arbeni :
Claim 14
The most interesting fact is our knowledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources.
They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.A fact to support this except the texts themselves is their flag. I'm sure you know that the Byzantine war flag was a double headed eagle on a red background
Response
What facst? What sources? What evidences?
Nothing at all. Just a pathetic made up story, to brainwash the common Serbian people, to fill them with hatress agaist Albanian, a mission which will result on damaging own Serbs interests and will discreditate them in the vaste opinion.
- Which is this arab word that corresponds to "those who have not returned"?? So we can grab an arab dictionary to see how true is this idiotcy!!
- The Arabs weren't in the Caucasus by the 8th century. How did they manage to transport these "albanian"people from there? By ship or camel?
Albanians turn out not to have become majority muslim until the 17th century. during the early centuries of ottoman rule they were a focus of strong christian resistance. Rather strange for a people allegedly transported there by muslim arabs. Shocked Albanian islam contains a strong bektashi element, an order of anatolian turkish, not arab origin.
What is reffered to turns out to be a tosk speaking colony in sicily and calabria, apparently they fled there during the ottoman era (not the other way round) especially since albanians were shepherds, not soldiers!!
The Byzantine Empire, is the Roman Empire on the East. It descended this symbol from Ancient Romans who were worshiping Jupiter or Zeus. The eagle is the symbol of Zeus and two heads indicates east and west acording to very old tradition:
Zeus with the lightings---------------------------Albanian Eagle with the lightings
Zeus released two eagles from opposite ends of the earth, one from the east and one from the west, and the precise spot where they met, was in Delphi
It's easy to notice that Albanian symbols, come from a very old time, and not just late medieval, like you would like to be.
Together with two horned (helmet of Scanderbeg) symbol the twoheaded eagle symbol goes back in the prehistoric times, when the culture of the Albanians ancestors was dominating upon Mediteranien and probably the entire Europian Continent.
h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of communicating with each other.
(that does sound stupid don't you think?)
Response
As the matter of fact judging from the Messapic inscription, we do have a total correspondance of the words, between Albanian and Messapic. So you are boumeranging yourself.
Claim 10
The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore.
Response
What do you know about Albanian sound change laws?
Aulona my friend had been considered a Greek word Aulon (Greek: Αὐλῶν Aulôn) and not a Latin one and it’s a word at least 2500 years old. As the matter of fact it correspondes entirely to the Albanian word Vlona (geg) and Vlora (tosk) since in Greek it is pronounced A-vlona. It derives from the Albanian word vlon which means boil and this city is one of the warmest in Europe where the temperature hardly goes below zero.
Claim 11
j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe)
Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava
Ptolemy's Geography can be found at :
penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html
Response
This is the most shameless claim which doesn’t deserve any answer at all. Look at the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World, (ISBN 0-691-03169-X)
Claim 12
There is NO MEMORY of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage.
Response
There is a lot to everyone who doesn’t want to close the eyes.
Claim 13
p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development.
Response
This dictionary undeniably proves that Albanians are the Ancient Epirotes, and by that time the name ARBEN was in use randomly, and our Homeland has been called by us Arbeni :
Claim 14
The most interesting fact is our knowledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources.
They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.A fact to support this except the texts themselves is their flag. I'm sure you know that the Byzantine war flag was a double headed eagle on a red background
Response
What facst? What sources? What evidences?
Nothing at all. Just a pathetic made up story, to brainwash the common Serbian people, to fill them with hatress agaist Albanian, a mission which will result on damaging own Serbs interests and will discreditate them in the vaste opinion.
- Which is this arab word that corresponds to "those who have not returned"?? So we can grab an arab dictionary to see how true is this idiotcy!!
- The Arabs weren't in the Caucasus by the 8th century. How did they manage to transport these "albanian"people from there? By ship or camel?
Albanians turn out not to have become majority muslim until the 17th century. during the early centuries of ottoman rule they were a focus of strong christian resistance. Rather strange for a people allegedly transported there by muslim arabs. Shocked Albanian islam contains a strong bektashi element, an order of anatolian turkish, not arab origin.
What is reffered to turns out to be a tosk speaking colony in sicily and calabria, apparently they fled there during the ottoman era (not the other way round) especially since albanians were shepherds, not soldiers!!
The Byzantine Empire, is the Roman Empire on the East. It descended this symbol from Ancient Romans who were worshiping Jupiter or Zeus. The eagle is the symbol of Zeus and two heads indicates east and west acording to very old tradition:
Zeus with the lightings---------------------------Albanian Eagle with the lightings
Zeus released two eagles from opposite ends of the earth, one from the east and one from the west, and the precise spot where they met, was in Delphi
It's easy to notice that Albanian symbols, come from a very old time, and not just late medieval, like you would like to be.
Together with two horned (helmet of Scanderbeg) symbol the twoheaded eagle symbol goes back in the prehistoric times, when the culture of the Albanians ancestors was dominating upon Mediteranien and probably the entire Europian Continent.
Let 3
The Nipple Erector
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хахахахаа
ископиран текст од некој анонимус од некој си форум кој увидел дека албанците (иако не се споменуваат во ни едни документи се до 19 век) биле најстари на балканот
хахахахаа
Ај пикасо дај малце просветли не кој истражувал и од колку примероци на популација е земен днк примерок и по кој критериум се земани.
Ова истражување испаѓа како она на коче за број на педери во Македонија, прашал 9 души дали се педери 9случаен избор на анкета) па тие рекле не, а пошо кочо си е педер тој заклучил дека секој 10 сети граѓанин на Македонија е педер. И така оп ете ти бројки и статистики.
Пикасо остај тие работи шо не ги разбираш копај си таму в стоби земај некој денар остај наука. За наука треба чколија.
ископиран текст од некој анонимус од некој си форум кој увидел дека албанците (иако не се споменуваат во ни едни документи се до 19 век) биле најстари на балканот
хахахахаа
Ај пикасо дај малце просветли не кој истражувал и од колку примероци на популација е земен днк примерок и по кој критериум се земани.
Ова истражување испаѓа како она на коче за број на педери во Македонија, прашал 9 души дали се педери 9случаен избор на анкета) па тие рекле не, а пошо кочо си е педер тој заклучил дека секој 10 сети граѓанин на Македонија е педер. И така оп ете ти бројки и статистики.
Пикасо остај тие работи шо не ги разбираш копај си таму в стоби земај некој денар остај наука. За наука треба чколија.
Picasso`
Schizophrenic!
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- 26 јануари 2007
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Форум?
Хехе...
Е ајде де, побиј го тоа де на колец?
И не копам, туку работам како асистент, а тоа и не те брига тебе многу... Оти и науката се врти против вас простите и лажните...
See the attached Word file for the frequency and variance maps for V13 and J2b2-M241 from this study. The variance peaks in Split Croatia for V13 and has a lesser peak around Konya, Turkey. The actual calculated age (based on variance) in Konya was 9.4 kya (+/-2.9) compared with 9.2 kya (+/-4.3). There is no meaningful difference in these two calculations. The variance for J2b2 (which Cruciani has identified as V13's brother clade within the population of the Balkans) peaks at Konya also, at 10.1 kya (+/-3.4). This would appear to be a single population with two clades making up the male portion. Catal-Hoyuk is not far from Konya. It's my opinion that they have found the origin of V13/M241 (Catal Hoyuk region) but don't like the resulting conclusion. I doubt seriously that V13 and J2b2 arose simultaneously and separately in two regions of the near east at exactly the same time. Ergo, they came from the location where both variances peaked: near Konya, Turkey.
Combining the King et al and Battaglia et al papers, a highly speculative sequence of settlement can be developed:
1. Catal-Hoyuk (10.1-10.4 kya) - 8400-8100 B.C. - the Neolithic revolution is founded
within a few centuries, overpopulation occurs
2. People spread out to several other locations: Lerna/Franchthi, Split, Corfu, Sicily, Apulia. (Initial Neolithic, 9-10 kya)
(Sicily turns out to be quite old in both clades; older than Greece BTW, about 10.0 kya for M241. I have calculated a similar ASD age for V13 in Sicily.
3. Other settlements appears: Nea Nikomedeia, Maliq, Starcevo, etc. (8.6 kya) - this is the main wave of the Early Neolithic in the Balkans
4. The proto-Greeks finally make the scene in Sesklo-Dimini (about 4.3 kya) - but they may have migrated there from Lerna, following the House of Tiles destruction (about the same time)?
The Albanians appear to emerge as the oldest population in the Balkans outside of Lerna, with the exception of Split, Croatia, which is almost as far south as Montenegro anyway. The variance table shows clearly that V13 spread from west to east and from north to south in the western Balkans. Given the associations, I am of the opinion that the Albanian V13 in the Vardar-Morava corridor is derived from the Illyrian population.
Since Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia were ignored completely in this study, I can't say whether those folks (clearly within Thracian and Dacian regions) are older, younger or the same age as the Illyrian V13/M241 populations. Mocsy held that the population west of the Vardar-Morava valleys were Illyrian and east of the same valley were Thracian. Perhaps he was exactly correct.
I think that I may have found a way to test my Roman hypothesis, however. Back to the spreadsheets!
Steve
Инаку не знаеш кој е Стивен Брд... Затоа плескаш... Ама ако простени ти е.,.. Македоно-Славјанин си...