Потеклото на Албанците

Bratot

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Уште многу пред Птоломеј се спомнати, цели 7 века.

Албанополис како град во Илирија за првпат е спомнат од Птоломеј во вториот век.


Претходно нема записи од ниту еден антички историчар за ова име на оваа територија.

Но, Албанополис веќе постоел во Ерменија, од многу порано.

Како и Албаноите и Аргонаутите.

Во 5 век ПРЕД нашата ера.



















Илирологот , Вон Шуфлај вели дека името Албанец е од античко време :vozbud:
Па од античко време е де.

“Антиката“ како историски период трае до 5 век од нашата ера.

А знаеме од повеќе примери дека Римјаните имале навика да ги менуваат топонимите и да ги преместуваат во други региони како гео-политичките теми.

Затоа најголема е веројатноста дека Албаноите и Албанополис се или донесени легии од Кавказ или едноставно Римјаните ги создале тие топоними на балканот.
 
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Дека Албанополис имало во Ерменија тоа не ми значи дека од таму сме дојдени , затоа што : нема логика да го зборуваш овој јазик а да си од таму дојден , нема пак логика да имаш Илирска облека ( бела капа ,фустанела,епирска музика која е заштитена и потврдена од УНЕСКО итн) а да си дојден од таму , така го глеат историчарите , но сепак за ова ке ти одговарам кога ке бидам поспремен ..
Кој се тие луге шо живееле во Епир ?
Грци не се ,
еве и антички историчари :
Pausanias, Description of Greece 1.12. [5]

Πύρρον δὲ ἐς Σικελίαν ἀπήγαγε πρεσβεία Συρακουσίων: Καρχηδόνιοι γὰρ διαβάντες τὰς Ἑλληνίδας τῶν πόλεων ἐποίουν ἀναστάτους, ἣ δὲ ἦν λοιπή, Συρακούσαις πολιορκοῦντες προσεκάθηντο. ἃ τῶν πρέσβεων Πύρρος ἀκούων Τάραντα μὲν εἴα καὶ τοὺς τὴν ἀκτὴν ἔχοντας Ἰταλιωτῶν, ἐς δὲ τὴν Σικελίαν διαβὰς Καρχηδονίους ἠνάγκασεν ἀπαναστῆναι Συρακουσῶν. φρονήσας δὲ ἐφ' αὑτῷ Καρχηδονίων, οἳ θαλάσσης τῶν τότε βαρβάρων μάλιστα εἶχον ἐμπείρως Τύριοι Φοίνικες τὸ ἀρχαῖον ὄντες, τούτων ἐναντία ἐπήρθη ναυμαχῆσαι τοῖς Ἠπειρώταις χρώμενος, οἳ μηδὲ ἁλούσης Ἰλίου θάλασσαν οἱ πολλοὶ μηδὲ ἁλσὶν ἠπίσταντό πω χρῆσθαι.
Pyrrhus was brought over to Sicily by an embassy of the Syracusans. The Carthaginians had crossed over and were destroying the Greek cities, and had sat down to invest Syracuse, the only one now remaining. When Pyrrhus heard this from the envoys he abandoned Tarentum and the Italiots on the coast, and crossing into Sicily forced the Carthaginians to raise the siege of Syracuse. In his self-conceit, although the Carthaginians, being Phoenicians of Tyre by ancient descent, were more experienced sea men than any other non-Greek people of that day, Pyrrhus was nevertheless encouraged to meet them in a naval battle, employing the Epeirots, the majority of whom, even after the capture of Troy, knew no thing of the sea nor even as yet how to use salt.
Еве и друг историчар од антиката ,
Strabo 5.2.4 ,
As for the Pelasgi, almost all agree, in the first place, that some ancient tribe of that name spread throughout the whole of Greece, and particularly among the Aeolians of Thessaly. Again, Ephorus says that he is of the opinion that, since they were originally Arcadians, they chose a military life, and that, in converting many peoples to the same mode of life, they imparted their name to all, and thus acquired great glory, not only among the Greeks, but also among all other people whithersoever they had chanced to come. For example, they prove to have been colonisers of Crete, as Homer says; at any rate, Odysseus says to Penelope: "But one tongue with others is mixed; there dwell Achaeans, there Cretans of the old stock, proud of heart, there Cydonians and Dorians too, of waving plumes, and goodly Pelasgians." And Thessaly is called "the Pelasgian Argos" (I mean that part of it which lies between the outlets of the Peneius River and Thermopylae as far as the mountainous country of Pindus), on account of the fact that the Pelasgi extended their rule over these regions. Further, the Dodonaean Zeus is by the poet himself named "Pelasgian": "O Lord Zeus, Dodonaean, Pelasgian." And many have called also the tribes of Epirus "Pelasgian," because in their opinion the Pelasgi extended their rule even as far as that. And, further, because many of the heroes were called "Pelasgi" by name, the people of later times have, from those heroes, applied the name to many of the tribes; for example, they have called the island of Lesbos "Pelasgia," and Homer has called "Pelasgi" the people that were neighbours to those Cilicians who lived in the Troad: "And Hippothous led the tribes of spear-fighting Pelasgi, those Pelasgi who inhabited deep-soiled Larissa." But Ephorus' authority for the statement that this race originated in Arcadia was Hesiod; for Hesiod says: "And sons were born of god-like Lycaon, who, on a time, was begotten by Pelasgus." Again, Aeschylus, in his Suppliants, or else his Danaan Women, says that the race of the Pelasgi originated in that Argos which is round about Mycenae. And the Peloponnesus too, according to Ephorus, was called "Pelasgia." And Euripides too, in his Archelaus, says: "Danaus, the father of fifty daughters, on coming into Argos, took up his abode in the city of Inachus, and throughout Greece he laid down a law that all people hitherto named Pelasgians were to be called Danaans." And again, Anticleides says that they were the first to settle the regions round about Lemnos and Imbros, and indeed that some of these sailed away to Italy with Tyrrhenus the son of Atys. And the compilers of the histories of The Land of Atthis give accounts of the Pelasgi, believing that the Pelasgi were in fact at Athens too, although the Pelasgi were by the Attic people called "Pelargi," the compilers add, because they were wanderers and, like birds, resorted to those places whither chance led them.
А дека се Албанците Епирци тоа го потврдуват многу , и лингвисти и историчари , посебно овој линк шо го најдов кажува доста од 1635г. : http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/texte/etcs/alban/blanchus/blanc.htm
Andrea de Poza Spanierin 1587 , “Albaner nannte man früher Epiroten”
Превод : Албанците биле викани Епироти порано .
G. Skaliger Franzose(1540 - 1600) 1599 Buch: Langues europeennes, “die epirotische Sprache von früher ist die albanische Sprache von heute”
Превод : Јазикот на Европа ,Епирскиот јазик од порано е Албанскиот јазик денеска .
 

Bratot

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Тоа му доаѓа логично дека Албанците порано биле викани Епироти, меѓутоа токму за тоа спориме, за етнонимот Албанци.

Неможеш да ја негираш врската која ти ја посочив, без разлика што ќе ми постираш извори кои тебе ти се поклопуваат, сепак тие не го негираат ниту неутрализираат она што стои во преостанатите извори.

Доколку треба објективно да заземеме став не би требало да правиме селекција.
 
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Тоа му доаѓа логично дека Албанците порано биле викани Епироти, меѓутоа токму за тоа спориме, за етнонимот Албанци.

Неможеш да ја негираш врската која ти ја посочив, без разлика што ќе ми постираш извори кои тебе ти се поклопуваат, сепак тие не го негираат ниту неутрализираат она што стои во преостанатите извори.

Доколку треба објективно да заземеме став не би требало да правиме селекција.
Јасно и кај овој антички историчар kako го кажува потеклото од :
Their one strength lay in the cavalry: Pharasmanes was formidable also in infantry, for life in a highland district has trained the Iberians and Albanians to superior hardiness and endurance. They claim to have originated from Thessaly, at the time when Jason, after the departure of Medea with the children she had borne him, retraced his steps, a little later, to the empty palace of Aeëtes and the kingless realm of Colchis. His name survives in many of their institutions, which include an oracle of Phrixus; and, as the belief is held that Phrixus was carried by a ram (whether the word denotes the animal or the figurehead of a ship),23 it is inadmissible to offer one in sacrifice.
TacitusAnnals Book VI, 34
 

Bratot

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Другарче жалам, но немаш среќа ни овој пат.

Станува збор за Албаните и Иберите од Арменија.

He chose Tiridates, of the same stock as Artabanus, to be his rival, and the Iberian Mithridates to be the instrument of recovering Armenia, having reconciled him to his brother Pharasmanes, who held the throne of that country.

Of the petty chiefs Mithridates was the first to persuade Pharasmanes to aid his enterprise by stratagem and force, and agents of corruption were found who tempted the servants of Arsaces into crime by a quantity of gold. At the same instant the Iberians burst into Armenia with a huge host, and captured the city of Artaxata. Artabanus, on hearing this, made his son Orodes the instrument of vengeance. He gave him the Parthian army and despatched men to hire auxiliaries. Pharasmanes, on the other hand, allied himself with the Albanians, and procured aid from the Sarmatae, whose highest chiefs took bribes from both sides, after the fashion of their countrymen, and engaged themselves in conflicting interests. But the Iberians, who were masters of the various positions, suddenly poured the Sarmatae into Armenia by the Caspian route. Meanwhile those who were coming up to the support of the Parthians were easily kept back, all other approaches having been closed by the enemy except one, between the sea and the mountains on the Albanian frontier, which summer rendered difficult, as there the shallows are flooded by the force of the Etesian gales. The south wind in winter rolls back the waves, and when the sea is driven back upon itself, the shallows along the coast, are exposed.

Meantime, while Orodes was without an ally, Pharasmanes, now strengthened by reinforcements, challenged him to battle, taunted him on his refusal, rode up to his camp and harassed his foraging parties. He often hemmed him in with his picquets in the fashion of a blockade, till the Parthians, who were unused to such insults, gathered round the king and demanded battle. Their sole strength was in cavalry; Pharasmanes was also powerful in infantry, for the Iberians and Albanians, inhabiting as they did a densely wooded country, were more inured to hardship and endurance. They claim to have been descended from the Thessalians, at the period when Jason, after the departure of Medea and the children born of her, returned subsequently to the empty palace of Aeetes, and the vacant kingdom of Colchi. They have many traditions connected with his name and with the oracle of Phrixus. No one among them would think of sacrificing a ram, the animal supposed to have conveyed Phrixus, whether it was really a ram or the figure-head of a ship.

http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.6.vi.html

The eastern Black Sea city of Volni was part of the kingdom of Colchi, today's Georgia.


Medea (Greek: Μήδεια, Mēdeia) is a woman in Greek mythology. She was the daughter of King Aeëtes of Colchis, niece of Circe, granddaughter of the sun god Helios, and later wife to the hero Jason, with whom she had two children: Mermeros and Pheres. In Euripides's play Medea, Jason leaves Medea when Creon, king of Corinth, offers him his daughter, Creusa or Glauce. The play tells of how Medea gets her revenge on her husband for this betrayal.
The myths involving Jason have been interpreted by specialists, principally in the past, as part of a class of myths that tell how the Hellenes of the distant heroic age, before the Trojan War, faced the challenges of the pre-Greek "Pelasgian" cultures of mainland Greece, the Aegean and Anatolia. Jason, Perseus, Theseus, and above all Heracles, are all "liminal" figures, poised on the threshold between the old world of shamans, chthonic earth deities, and the new Bronze Age Greek ways.
Medea figures in the myth of Jason and the Argonauts, a myth known best from a late literary version worked up by Apollonius of Rhodes in the 3rd century B.C. and called the Argonautica. But for all its self-consciousness and researched archaic vocabulary, the late epic was based on very old, scattered materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea

Пред се' се работи за мит.


Mithradates VI (Greek: Μιθριδάτης), from Old Persian Mithradatha, "gift of Mithra"; b. 134, d. 63 BC, also known as Mithradates the Great (Megas) and Eupator Dionysius, was king of Pontus and Armenia Minor in northern Anatolia (now in Turkey) from about 119 to 63 BC. Mithradates was a king of Greek and Persian origin, and claimed descent from Alexander the Great and King Darius the Great. Both spellings of his name were used in antiquity; Mithridates was favored by the Romans, while Mithradates follows Greek inscriptions and highlights the association with the ancient Persian god Mithra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus

На мапава доле ги гледаш Ибериа и Колчи во Кавкаскиот регион:

Map of the Kingdom of Pontus, Before the reign of Mithridates VI (darkest purple), after his conquests (purple), and his conquests in the first Mithridatic wars (pink).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/PonticKingdom.png

Значи освен што ми ги потврдуваш моите аргументи доаѓаме до се почести варијации на имиња: Албани, Албанополис, Арбани, Аргонаути, Митридити... сите од Кавказ.

После не ми замерувајте кога самите си ги местите тие теории дека сте од Кавказ.

Да надополнам:

Iberia (Georgianიბერია, Latin: Iberia and Greek:Ἰβηρία), also known as Iveria (Georgian: ივერია), was a name given by the ancient Greeks and Romans to the ancient Georgian kingdom of Kartli[1] (4th century BC - 5th century AD), corresponding roughly to the eastern and southern parts of the present day Georgia.[2][3]







Во 11 век Селџуците ја заземаат Иберија и Албанија на Кавказ.
 
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И не верувам дека мислиш те терам да ми веруваш ?
Нити идам на тоа , а што се оденсува до мене ти верувај на која страна сакаш тоа е твое право , а знај дека моето потекло нема да можеш да го промониш со евтини фори , како што самиот рече :wink:
Sekako tvoe pravo e vo sto ke veruvas.dali vo sovremenata nauka genetikata koja jasno go posocuva aziskiot gen.a drugo e veruvanjeto vo enciklopedija britanika od 1912.
:toe:
 

f91

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Y-STR variation in Albanian populations: implications on the match probabilities and the genetic legacy of the minority claiming an Egyptian descent . Published online: 18 March 2010



Y chromosome variation at 12 STR (the Powerplex® Y system core set) and 18
binary markers was investigated in two major (the Ghegs and the Tosks) and two minor (the Gabels and the Jevgs) populations from Albania (Southern Balkans). The large proportion of haplotypes shared within and between groups makes the Powerplex 12-locus set inadequate to ensure a suitable power of discrimination for the forensic practice. At least 85% of Y lineages in the Jevgs, the cultural minority claiming an Egyptian descent, turned out to be of either Roma or Balkan ancestry. They also showed unequivocal signs of a common genetic history with the Gabels, the other Albanian minority practising social and cultural Roma traditions...
 

Bratot

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Мало освежување за вжештување:





Куку нонен :)
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Да де, ич тоа не е проблем. Значи there is ANOTHER Albania...

Тоа е друга албанија пријателе, провокацијата е интересна кога ќе се клапне на ова:

1308
The said kingdom of Albania now has no king, the land being divided among the landowners who rule it themselves and who are subject to no one else. This province is called Albania because the inhabitants of this region are born with white (albo) hair. The dogs here are of a huge size (6) and are so wild that they kill like lions. As Pliny mentions, the Albanians sent such a dog to Alexander the Great, which vanquished lions, elephants and bulls in the stadium. They have painted eyes, greyish in the pupils, such that they can see better at night than in the daytime. There are two Albanias, one in Asia near India of which we are not speaking here, and the other in Europe which is part of the Byzantine Empire and of which we are speaking here.
http://albanianhistory.net/texts15/AH1308.html

Ејдиѓи луди години, во 14 век знаеле шо кај е, денес луѓето изгубени во просторите ништо не знат. Напредок или не.

--- надополнето ---

Чим Дагестани се споменуваат, ај вашите експертизи кажете за тоа каков јазик се зборува таму, и каков СЕ ЗБОРУВАЛО ВО МИНАТОТО, и колку е тој сличен со денешниот албански јазик, да прошириме малку.
 

Bratot

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As Pliny mentions, the Albanians sent such a dog to Alexander the Great, which vanquished lions, elephants and bulls in the stadium.

Дали знаеш кои биле Албанците за време на Александар? :)

Втора грешка, во анонимниот извор, е локацијата на “втората“ Албанија, тешко е да се замисли дека може да се направи толкава географска грешка.

Меѓудругото, нели, и ние се согласуваме дека постоеле 2 Албании. :)

Која била првата?
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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За Илирските Албанци мислел Плиниј...

Патем не е за географија работата и проблемот, туку основата на сето тоа е "проблемот"...

Авторот гледал кроз тоа тогашна призма, и затоа така напишал. ;)

--- надополнето ---

Еве како мислел Плиниј:


Dogs have been a part of human society for longer than any other domestic species. Archaeological evidence indicates that the domestication of dogs started as early as the last Ice Age (12000 to 14000 years ago) when societies still depended on hunting, gathering, and foraging. As societies developed a more organized form of living dogs were bred for other more sophisticated tasks, such as; home and livestock guarding, sheep herding, transport(sled-pulling), war, as well as entertainment (1).
The most renowned dog breeders in the continent of Europe, is recorded, to have been Illyrians, a people who inhabited Balkan peninsula since prehistoric times. Dogs bred by Illyrian tribes; the Panonnians, the Dalmatians and most famous of all the Molossians, left a permanent mark on the accounts of many ancient writers for their extraordinary skills as hunters and sheepherders. The ancient writer Aristotle in 350 BC writes that 'the sheepdogs of Molossia are superior to any other breed of dogs in size and in courage with which they face wild animals' (2). The ancient roman writer, Pliny, also noted down that a dog of the same breed and reputation, was given to Alexander the Great by the King of Albania, for his military expedition to India. The dog once put to the test, in amphitheater, managed to kill a lion and an elephant (3). Besides courage and strength, fidelity and strong attachment to their masters is another remarkable feature of this breed. The dog of the Molossian king Pyrrhus is recorded to have kept watch over his master while he slept, and when Pyrrhus died, being inconsolable at his death, it leaped upon Pyrrhus's funeral pile and was consumed with his remains (4). Such was the Molosser's high reputation for strength, courage, faithfullnes and intellegence, that as soon as Illyrian lands were invaded by Romans, Molossers became a crucial element of Romes military strength.


During the XIX century the Molosser was also called 'The Albanian dog' by European cynologists and historians (5), attributing this autochtonous breed to the people of the Balkans who traditionally have been breeding it since Illyrian times. The naturalist, Edward Griffin, in 1827, writes about the Albanian dog:

The Albanian dog has been noticed by historians, naturalists and poets, even since Europe began to be raised into consequence and importance. A supernatural origin and infallible powers have been attributed to it. Diana is said to have presented Procris with a dog which was always sure of its prey, and to this animal the canine geneaologists of antiquity attributed the origin of the celebrated race of the South East Europe, particularly of Molossia and Sparta. The very fine breed of dogs now found very plentifully in this corner of Europe, particularly in Albania, accords with the description existing of its progenitors, indegenious in the same countries, and does not seem to have degenerated. They are as big as a mastiff; their thick fury is very long and silky, generally of different shades of brown, their tail is long and bushy (6)

Illyrian sheepdogs - Deltare Ilir
courtesy of FKK (Cynological Federation of Kosova)

The Molosser continued to be known as 'the Albanian dog' until 1939, when FCI (International Cynological Federation) recognized it with a new general name, 'the Illyrian shepherd dog', which name the dog carried officially until 1957. However, in 1957, under the request and political pressure by Yugoslav authorities, who attempted to deny any link between Albanians and Illyrians, FCI changed the official name of the dog into; 'Yugoslav Mountain Sharr dog' (Yugoslovenski Sarplaninac). The Mountain Sharr, the dogs usual habitation, at the time was mainly under Yugoslav administration but overwhelmingly inhabited by Albanians.
Nevertheless, three years later (in 1960), 'the Yugoslav Institute of the Dog' filmed the first documentary on 'Sarplaninac' nowhere other than in the Albanian villages of the Sharr mountain, showing Albanians as the original breeders of this great dog. (watch the documentary of priceless cultural importance - The film shows real images of fight with wolves)

Part 1 -
Part 2 -
Part 3 -

After the break up of Yugoslavia the dog was yet again politicized, but this time by the authorities of the newly formed state, Macedonia or FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). In 1996, on the request by Macedonia, FCI made a new modification to the name of the dog, this time; 'Macedonian-Yugoslav Sharr Mountain dog'. And Albanians, yet again, were ignored.
Today, after years of injustice, Albanians have taken an initiative to return the original name of the dog - 'Illyrian sheepdog'. In 2002 they formed the 'FKK' (Cynological Federation of Kosova) whose main aim is to achieve recognition for their 'Illyrian sheepdog' - http://medlem.spray.se/deltariilir/newpage2.html. The group has issued even its own magazine - 'Deltari Ilir' : http://medlem.spray.se/deltariilir/newpage1.html.
Besides, FKK, numerous associations of Albanian villagers have risen their voice, too, for the return of the original name of the dog. Albanians strongly feel that the cultural identity of the dog belongs to them (watch video by Reuters:)


Photo: An Albanian shepherd in Opoje - Kosova

Nevertheless, despite the current crisis on the cultural identity of the dog, the fact remains that this 'fine breed' has been bred by Albanian villagers according to ancient handed methods since antiquity. Methods, such as exposing the dogs to wolf blood or engaging them in fight with one another in order to maintain that certain untamed core of them, as well as improve their strength and overall health, are not known when they were first applied. In addition, Illyrian sheepdog has been so well integrated in the Albanian social life, that in many Albanian villages, marriage practices and ceremonies are followed with dog fights. Moreover, many Albanian villagers, to this day, see the dog as a prophetic animal whose habits can signify fortune or missfortune upon people. In the villages of the highlands of Tetova, (an overwhelmingly Albanian city in what is today Macedonia) it is thought that when the Illyrian sheepdog howls with head risen this brings good fortune upon the people of the village, especially upon the owner of the dog. Where as, when the dog howls while keeping the head down this could bring disease, poverty or death upon people, especially upon its owner (7). These practices and beliefs have their roots nowhere other than in the Illyrians of ancient times.





1.
2. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LwXrKUVTzGY

Ова секако е превземено, не сум го пишел јас, доволно од јасно и гласно.

--- надополнето ---

А за јазикот на античките КАФКАСКИ АЛБАНЦИ?

Јас ќе ви дам за него

http://www.lrz.de/~wschulze/Udigen1.htm

http://www.lrz.de/~wschulze/Uog.html

Ама нема врска со јазикот на денешните Албанци. Јок, ц'к..
 

Bratot

Стоик и Машкртник!
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За Илирските Албанци мислел Плиниј...

Патем не е за географија работата и проблемот, туку основата на сето тоа е "проблемот"...

Авторот гледал кроз тоа тогашна призма, и затоа така напишал. ;)

--- надополнето ---

Еве како мислел Плиниј:


Абе момчета, ти не ни знаеш на која Албанија се однесува кажаното од Плини:

Furthermore, it is handed down and recorded that in a certain far-off land called "Albania", people are born whose hair turns gray in childhood and who see more with their eyes at night than at other times. (5)

5. Transcaucasian Albania includes parts of modern Daghestan and northern Azerbaijan.




"A classical dictionary: containing a copious account of all the proper names mentioned in Ancient Authors"

Autor John Lemprière


Pliny has used Eratosthenes’ works for his accounts of the Caspian region and the lands surrounding it. In his Natural Geography, Pliny observes: “The Albanians (Aghvans H.) inhabited the vicinity of the River Kur and the Olazanes River (Alazan) separated them from the Iberians (Georgians H.)” He presents Kabalak (Կապաղակ) as the most important city of Aghvank. ●​


Дај прибери се и проверувај си ги добро “аргументите“ кои зјаат елементарно непознавање на историјата и не ни го арчи времето со Роберт Елси кој несомнено ви прави контра-услуга со овие грешни интерпретации и ве воведува во заблуда.
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Ц'к бе момчета ц'к...

The Albanian Dog can be traced to a very remote period of history. Some of the old authors speak of it as the dog which in the times of ancient mythology Diana presented to Procris. Pliny describes in enthusiastic terms the combat of one of them with a lion, and afterwards with an elephant. A dog very much resembling the ancient stories is yet found in Albania, and most of the districts of Greece. He is almost as large as a mastiff, with long and silky hair, the legs being shorter and stronger than those of the greyhound. He is gentle and tractable with those whom he knows, and when there is no point of duty at stake; but no bribe can seduce him from his post when any trust is committed to him.

This dog, it is very probable, was highly impregnated with molossian blood, and like that animal, was trained both for war and the chase. It is rather doubtful, whether the dogs presented to Alexander the Great by the king of Albania, were those of his own country or some that he had obtained from other parts. We are inclined to believe that they were imported dogs, for Pliny distinctly states, that these two were all that the generous monarch possessed, and if destroyed could not be replaced. From this circumstance it is natural to suppose that, if these dogs had been native Albanians, the king would have been able to supply any reasonable quantity of them, and, therefore, not necessitated to send this message to Alexander. On the other hand, if these dogs had been of the pure molossian type, such as were raised in Epirus, it is probable that their huge dimensions would not have surprised this monarch so much, as it is reasonable to believe that Alexander would certainly have seen, if not heard, of dogs so remarkable, belonging to a kingdom in immediate contiguity with his own. We are, therefore, forced to look to some other source, from whence came these proud dogs, who alone deigned to contend with the lion and elephant, and must yield to Strabo, who states that these animals were of the Indian breed.
Плини, Мини, курле мадле помешале димензии, ама Молосија знаеме каде е.

Most scholars agree the Molossus originated with the Molossis people in the mountainous regions of northwest Ancient Greece (modern Greece northwest and Southern Albania before the Common Era). The Molossians were renowned for their vicious hounds, which were used by Molossian shepherds of Epirus[5] in the mountains of northwestern Greece to guard their flocks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molossus_(dog)

Знаел Плини на кои Албанци мислел, дури и да ги немало. ;)

--- надополнето ---

А не се троши времето со Елси пошто тој е професионалец во својата работа, а тие се документи пронајдени по архиви. Туку Елси е тој што ви ги боде очите и желбата со фалсиклопедисување наоколу.

Пошо вас ви е традиција и адет, да негирате и отфрлате документи и факти, да и извори, дури и светци да анатемисувате и да ги прогласувате како измислени, ова не е чудно. Ама убава е дискусијата коа ќе се прошири вака и кога убаво нашироко ќе си праиме муабет.
Античките "списци" често ги мешале работите, ама не потеклото на некои работи. Ако песот се поклопува со Молосија денешна и тогашна (14 век Албанија) тоа е супер, ако тој пес до ден денес живее таму тоа е супер.

И не ни праи интерпретации, туку преведува, ова да си го сфатиш ко шо требе. Преведува.
 

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