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New York: Greek Political Establishment Gives Up on Macedonia Name Issue


New York: Greek Political Establishment Gives Up on Macedonia Name Issue
For Immediate Release: September 28, 2008
Contact: Nikolaos Taneris, New York, Tel. 1-917-699-9935
NEW YORK—The Cyprus Action Network of America (CANA) was informed by top community leaders in New York, that following a series of meetings and interviews with the Greek political ruling class in town this past week for the meeting of the UN general assembly, it became apparent that New Democracy and the Hellenic Foreign Ministry led by Ms. Dora Bakoyiannis, and PASOK led by George Papandreou (junior) bow to US State Department “pressure” and agree to a “geographical name” for the Macedonia name issue, meaning the Greek political establishment is now promoting the name “Upper Macedonia” or “Northern Macedonia” for Skopje.
The US State Department assigned Matthew Nimetz to his present role as “UN envoy” to cover the Macedonia name issue, previously this same Nimetz was assigned as an envoy to cover Cyprus. An unspoken characterization about the Greece desk or Aegean desk in the US State Department is that “Greeks are easy” and are “pushovers.” The unelected civil servants working in the US State Department eagerly seek out working on the Greece desk, which is used as springboard for lucrative positions in private sector public relations activities. As the record with former US State Department employee Nicholas Burns shows, US State Department officials are typically dealt with obsequiously by the Greek diplomatic corps and political establishment and their allies in the diaspora. The strong Turkish influence and penetration of the US State Department in recent decades plays a definite role, in inspiring the ideology of the Department for the region.
Giving up on the Macedonia name issue, means that the Greek political establishment is now at odds with historical truth. They are pandering to false historical revisionism in by assigning an official name that belongs only to Hellenes and to the Hellenic epic history, to the Skopje government representing the majority Slavophone cultures or ways of life in the Vardarska Republika surrounding the Balkan city of Skopje.
Many are convinced that the Hellenic foreign ministry is agreeing to a “geographical name” so as to seem agreeable and compromising to US State Department “pressure”, and are counting on the ultranationalist “TIVO” government of Mr. Gruevski in Skopje to reject the “geographical name”, so that the Hellenic Foreign Ministry can walk away, with no compromise, yet appear to be compromising.
Hellenic ideals of truth, historical or otherwise, are in the balance. The Greek political establishment if appearing to accept, in sincerity or in bluff, a name for an identity that belongs to the Hellenes, is an act that fails us all.

ЦЕЛ ТЕКСТ
http://www.cyprusactionnetwork.org/...stablishment_gives_up_on_macedonia_name_issue
 
А ууууууууу дај парада да им направиме сред скопје!!!

"Upper Macedonia"? во антиката овој простор би бил Lower Macedonia :D

Писмото е тешко потентно и незнам како да ја побијам нервозата сега. Треба да има некои апчиња од Алкалоид - Анти Гејлада Булшит. Безполезно е да зборуваме со нив. ДЕФЕНИТИВНО.


Contact: Nikolaos Taneris, New York, Tel. 1-917-699-9935
NEW YORK—The Cyprus Action Network of America (CANA) was informed by top community leaders in New York, that following a series of meetings and interviews with the Greek political ruling class in town this past week for the meeting of the UN general assembly, it became apparent that New Democracy and the Hellenic Foreign Ministry led by Ms. Dora Bakoyiannis, and PASOK led by George Papandreou (junior) bow to US State Department “pressure” and agree to a “geographical name” for the Macedonia name issue, meaning the Greek political establishment is now promoting the name “Upper Macedonia” or “Northern Macedonia” for Skopje.
The US State Department assigned Matthew Nimetz to his present role as “UN envoy” to cover the Macedonia name issue, previously this same Nimetz was assigned as an envoy to cover Cyprus. An unspoken characterization about the Greece desk or Aegean desk in the US State Department is that “Greeks are easy” and are “pushovers.” The unelected civil servants working in the US State Department eagerly seek out working on the Greece desk, which is used as springboard for lucrative positions in private sector public relations activities. As the record with former US State Department employee Nicholas Burns shows, US State Department officials are typically dealt with obsequiously by the Greek diplomatic corps and political establishment and their allies in the diaspora. The strong Turkish influence and penetration of the US State Department in recent decades plays a definite role, in inspiring the ideology of the Department for the region.
Giving up on the Macedonia name issue, means that the Greek political establishment is now at odds with historical truth. They are pandering to false historical revisionism in by assigning an official name that belongs only to Hellenes and to the Hellenic epic history, to the Skopje government representing the majority Slavophone cultures or ways of life in the Vardarska Republika surrounding the Balkan city of Skopje.
Many are convinced that the Hellenic foreign ministry is agreeing to a “geographical name” so as to seem agreeable and compromising to US State Department “pressure”, and are counting on the ultranationalist “TIVO” government of Mr. Gruevski in Skopje to reject the “geographical name”, so that the Hellenic Foreign Ministry can walk away, with no compromise, yet appear to be compromising.
Hellenic ideals of truth, historical or otherwise, are in the balance. The Greek political establishment if appearing to accept, in sincerity or in bluff, a name for an identity that belongs to the Hellenes, is an act that fails us all.

ГРЕЈНИТЕ ОНИ
ЛОШИТЕ МОМЦИ (напад врз Македонија)
НИЕ СЛАВНИТЕ (промоција на Гејлада)

Е кој не знаел вака се шири дезинформации и иредентизам. Многу моќно писмо ако не знаеш каде ти е главата или ако си некој трет. Незнам што да кажам... вие судете.
 
New York: Greek Political Establishment Gives Up on Macedonia Name Issue


New York:

promoting the name “Upper Macedonia” or “Northern Macedonia” for Skopje.

Добро бе сега, Скопје ќе се вика Северна Македонија?...:aplauz:
Ебате Грчките политичари, цело време викаат Скопје, Скопје, а не FYROM,значи џабе ќе биде и Северна Македонија, кога тие пак ќе не викаат Скопјанос и Скопија.
 
facebook και Μακεδονία!


Αγαπητέ καφετζή.

Σήμερα ένας φίλος με κάλεσε να παίξω ένα από τα παιχνιδάκια που υπάρχουν στο face book. (Εδώ είναι το λινκ)Αυτό το παιχνίδι έχει σχέση με την γεωγραφία. Δηλαδή σε πιο έθνος ανήκει η σημαία , πια χώρα είναι αυτή που βλέπεις να σκιαγραφείτε και που βρίσκετε η τάδε χώρα. Αρκετά εκπαιδευτικό. Αλλά όσο έπαιζα σε κάποιο σημείο εμφανίστηκε η ερώτηση ποια είναι η σημαία της Μακεδονίας. Και δεν υπήρχε ελληνική σημαία αλλά η Σκοπιανή.
Се канат на игра на фацебоок, против Македонија
ЛИНК
 
facebook και Μακεδονία!


Αγαπητέ καφετζή.

Σήμερα ένας φίλος με κάλεσε να παίξω ένα από τα παιχνιδάκια που υπάρχουν στο face book. (Εδώ είναι το λινκ)Αυτό το παιχνίδι έχει σχέση με την γεωγραφία. Δηλαδή σε πιο έθνος ανήκει η σημαία , πια χώρα είναι αυτή που βλέπεις να σκιαγραφείτε και που βρίσκετε η τάδε χώρα. Αρκετά εκπαιδευτικό. Αλλά όσο έπαιζα σε κάποιο σημείο εμφανίστηκε η ερώτηση ποια είναι η σημαία της Μακεδονίας. Και δεν υπήρχε ελληνική σημαία αλλά η Σκοπιανή.
Се канат на игра на фацебоок, против Македонија
ЛИНК



ako sakate prevod kazete...interesna slucka ovaa :pos2:
 
е ајде де, баш да видиме што игра е, преведи
 
Денес еден пријател ме да играм на една од игрите што ги има на face book (овде е линкот) Играта има врска со географијата.Всушност на кој народ припага знамето,која држава ја гледаш и каде се наога државата.Многу добра е игата за вежбанје.Но додека играв ми се најде прашанјето "Кое е знамето на Македонија"?
И немаше Грчко знаме туку Скопското.


Ова е преводот :toe:
 
абе глупости се ова...ееее колку вакви работи има по нетов....не се вредни за губење време.
 
да,ама во случајов нема никаква навреда во врска со Македонија,баш напротив...предноста е наша :vozbud:
 
ИСТОЧНИТЕ „ДОБРИ„ СОСЕДИ еве што пишуваат за нас

За гр'цките претенции в'рху името "Македонија" и оште нешто...
10:37 | 18-09-2008



​


Гр'цката позиција в спора около името на Република Македонија остана неразбрана изв'н рамките на страната. Аргументите на Атина отразјават до голјама степен преобладаваштите настроенија на гр'цкото население.

Всјака чужда претенција к'м наследството от старогр'цки времена се приема като атака срешту гр'цката идентичност, се казва в анализ на швејцарскија вестник "Ноје Цјурихер Цајтунг". http://www.nzz.ch/
Когато в началото на април тази година на срештата на в'рха на НАТО в Букурешт Г'рција наложи своето вето срешту поканата за прием на Македонија в Алианса, тлеештијат от началото на 90-те години спор около името на бившата југославска република отново беше изнесен изв'н региона. Името "Република Македонија" - според г'рците - представлјавало узурпиране на гр'цката историја и култура.

Можело да се стигне и до об'ркванија, поради наличието на едноименна северна гр'цка област. В с'штото време това било и символ на заплахата за териториалната цјалост на Г'рција, предизвикана от поставеното под чужди влијанија Скопие. Това схваштане не се промени ни нај-малко дори и след приемането на новата конституција на Македонија, в којато беше приета добавката, че страната не предјавјава никакви териториални претенции к'м с'седни д'ржави. Според Атина македонската нација си остава измишльотина на Тито, а македонскијат език - местен диалект, или оште по-добре казано - сбор от думи без синтаксис и граматика. Има само една Македонија и тја е гр'цка - под това мото протекоха многобројни масови демонстрации в Г'рција в началото на 90-те години.

Проблем'т не е от нај-важните в гр'цката политика, но толкова по-учудвашто е, че тој се в'зприема от населението именно като так'в. В краја на 2007 година две трети от г'рците се објавиха против използването на име, което с'д'ржа с'ставката "Македонија". В'ншната политика на Г'рција е с'штевременно и в'трешна политика и то не само в този случај, но и по кип'рскија в'прос, както и по други национални в'проси.

Гр'цката историографија не оставја с'мнение, че античните македонци са били истински елини, от което следва, че нјама друг народ, којто би мог'л да има правото да носи подобно име. Изклјучително комплекснијат македонски конфликт от краја на 19-ти и началото на 20-ти век се представја опростенчески единствено от гр'цка национална гледна точка. К'м тогава все оште османска Македонија са били насочени териториалните амбиции на Г'рција, С'рбија и Б'лгарија.

Един с'временен, критичен поглед к'м историјата би показал как тези три д'ржави, както и националистически организации, като проб'лгарската ВМРО или гр'цкото Национално дружество, са се опитвали с всички в'зможни средства - от с'здаването на училишта, та до прилагането на брутално насилие - да прев'рнат едно, до голјама степен недефинирано по отношение на националност население - с'ответно в б'лгарско, гр'цко или ср'бско. Вместо това обаче се с'здават впечатленија, като че Македонија е била населјавана единствено от г'рци, които се оказали беззаштитна жертва на агресијата на б'лгарските националисти.

Едва смелата намеса на храбрите гр'цки "борци за Македонија" ги спасила от б'лгаризиране. В тази вр'зка следва да се окаже, че тази тема се третира единствено от собствената националистическа гледна точка в учебниците по историја на Република Македонија, но и на Б'лгарија. Подобни (в крајна сметка безсмислени) противопоставјанија могат да б'дат преодолјани само ако се преодолее националистическијат манталитет в Г'рција и југоизточна Европа като цјало. За тази цел на п'рво мјасто ште са нужни нови с'д'ржанија в учебниците по историја.

Докато правителствата в региона се страхуват да променјат анахронични образователни с'д'ржанија, те вредјат и на самите себи си, като в значителна степен стеснјават и собственија си политически (а в този случај и в'ншнополитически) перимет'р.

ИЗВОР
 
Nikos Martis Former Greek Government Minister
President of Macedonian Hestia

To Dr. Ismail Serageldin
Director General of Bibliotheca Alexandrina
cc UNESCO


Dear Dr Serageldin,
Please accept this well-meant letter, the writing of which was motivated by the following email, which was forwarded from Holland on the 19th December 2003 under the heading "DONATIONS BY THE WORLD MACEDONIAN CONGRESS" and reads verbatim "In an official visit to the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, Mr Todor Petrov, Representative of the World Macedonia Congress, donated 190 books to the Library, of which the majority are written in the Macedonian language".
Mr Petrov said that the collection is contributed by several Ministries and they cover various topics such as Macedonian culture, folklore and monuments. The collection also includes the replica of a war helmet, similar to those that date back to the age of Alexander the Great, who founded the city of Alexandria in 332 BC. Mr Petrov also donated two ancient wine cups with the Macedonian shield to H.E. Mrs Susan Mubarak, Chair of the BA Board of Trustees, and Dr. Ismail Serageldin, Director of the Library. An original rare coin was also donated by Mr John Todorovski of the World Macedonian Congress.
I chose to quote the full text of the said announcement on the internet, to which the international community has plausibly access, so that no dispute may arise as to the exactitude of the contents of this provocative and shameless usurpation of the Hellenic identity of the Macedonians, as well as of the Hellenic origin of the name, the language, the history and the culture of Macedonia.
My latest book entitled "FYROM, the anti-democratic residuum in Europe and the problematic Stabilisation and Association Agreement with the EU", a copy of which I happily dedicate to you herewith, reveals with irrefutable historical facts and documents that the re-naming of South Serbia into Macedonia, effected in August 1944 by Tito and Stalin's consent, aiming at the detachment of Macedonia from Greece, in order to gain control of the northern Aegean and subsequently the artificial creation of the pseudo-macedonian nation of Skopje, constitutes the greatest political and historical fraud.
It is worth mentioning the immediate reaction of the US Secretary of State of the Roosvelt administration, Stettinius, who in his circular 868014/1944 denounced any reference to a "Macedonian nation", "Macedonian homeland" and "Macedonian national consciousness", as demagoguery, and stated that the US will take measures against those who will assist Yugoslavia and Bulgaria in their attempts to ignite a Macedonian question; something that was supported by later Presidents, many legislative bodies of the US and, among other, the United Nations, Pope John Paul and the confession of Stalin and Dimitrov.
With the formation of the "Socialist democracy of Macedonia", they created on paper the non-existent ingredients of the pseudo-macedonian nation. Namely, regarding (1) the State, it was named in 1944 "Macedonian government", "Macedonian Parliament". Regarding (2) the Language, the Bulgarian dialect that was spoken in Skopje was named "Macedonian Language", and following procedures of many months it was recognised in May 1945 as "the Macedonian language". Its first grammar was circulated in 1952 and its first philological dictionary in 1961. Regarding the Church, it was in 1968 proclaimed by the atheistic Communist party only in Skopje "Autocephalous Macedonian Church". As regards History, the three-volume history of "The Macedonian Nation" was published in 1969. With the most fraudulent assertion that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, they forged history in a vulgar manner and appropriated all the events, the monuments and personnages who have been active in Macedonia throughout the centuries.
Skopje, which was a) during antiquity and the Roman Empire period capital of Dardania, b) during the Turkish dominion capital of Kossovo, c) from 1912-1944 capital of South Serbia (Vardaska) were arbitrarily and illegally named capital of Macedonia. The metropolis of Macedonia, Thessaloniki, known as such since 316 BC by Strabo, is called Soloun by the Skopjans with the result that whoever hears that Apostle Paul wrote letters to the people of Thessaloniki, they don't understand the name of city, to the inhabitants of which it was addressed.
Skopjans already pursue to become members of the European Union. This goal of theirs is not feasible, as long as they don't disappopriate the stolen Hellenistic names "Macedonia-Macedonian" and they don't acquire a new name as after all Mr Thomas Niles, the Under Secretary of State, declared in a statement to the Congress committee in June 1992.
The reasons which debar their incorporation under the present name are:
1) In the Treaty of Maastricht, an integral part of the Treaty of Amsterdam, whereby the new interests of the EU include Education and Culture. With a special report, copy of which I attach hereto, I put as a problem to the EU the matter of the identity of Macedonians, which is the Greek identity. My report and a relevant book were passed on to 9 committees of the European Parliament.
2) All the neighbourly Balkan peoples have disapproved of the Macedoniasm of the Skopjans.
a) Zelev as President of the Democracy of Bulgaria during an official visit to Sweden on 20/5/1993 characterised the pseudo-macedonian nation "a murder of Titoism and Stalinism".
b) The leader of an Albanian party of Skopje accused publicly President Gligorov of forging the history of his neighbours and of his Macedonianism being fabricated.
c) The Serbian church, but also the Serbs who know the truth, are against this artificial nation.
d) No Greek government could possibly allow the incorporation of this democracy under the name Macedonia and its Slav inhabitants as Macedonians, as the purpose of its creation was, as it is clear in maps of school books, the detachment of Macedonia from Greece, together with the appropriation of its cultural heritage of Macedonia, which, as Hellenistic period, influenced the history of mankind; but it is also an insult to the memory of the outstanding Presidents of three Greek political parties, such as 1) of the Macedonian Constantine Karamanlis, who as President of Democracy, 2) of Andreas Papandreou, who as Prime Minister, as shown from official texts appearing in my book and 3) of Elias Iliou, as President of the Left Party (EDA) who with the dramatic title in a letter of his "Be careful with Macedonia" in newspaper VEMA 17/2/1981 with substantial arguments put out of the question any acceptance of the name "Macedonia".
e) Because this Democracy offends everybody, in Europe and the entire world, who respects the historical truth, for, as the Swedish University Lund with the signature of Staffan Stolpe, mentions in a special study in 1995, the history of Macedonia is not only the history of the Greeks, but of all the Europeans, as the Macedonians spread the Hellenic civilisation in Europe and all over the world. With a new name the dangerous ties of the neighbouring people with their fellow countrymen at Skopje will be cut off and thus the Skopjans will cease to present the provocative contention that there are Macedonian minorities, a fact that breeds danger for peace, something that made in 2000 Pundit Ashtown, candidate Governor of the United Nations at Kossovo, to characterise Skopje as the Bomb of the Balkans.

The name that they historically deserve is the DEMOCRACY of Dardania as Skopje had been its capital for centuries. Moreover, it is with a new name that this multinational democracy will be able to prosper un-distracted and become a factor of peace.
No Macedonian nation has ever existed, nor does it exist now. The Macedonians were Greeks, a fact that is confirmed by 1) by texts of the Old and the New Testament, by texts of ancient authors, by historical events (wars, treaties, Turkish inventories and elections), by the participation of the Macedonians in the Olympic games and the Amphictyonies, but also by the fact that all Greeks regarded mount Olympus as the dwelling place of their Gods and the other Macedonian mountain, Pieria, as the place of origin of the Muses. 2) by the fact that the Macedonians had, together with all Greeks, the same language (Greek), the same Gods, the same sanctuaries, the same names, the same habits and customs and the same ancient theatres, 4 of which are in Macedonia and 2 with Greek inscriptions in the southernmost part of the democracy of Skopje, which belonged to ancient Macedonia and in 1912 it was annexed to Serbia as Serbian territory.
Finally, a catalytic element of proof, is the fact that at the National Research Centre in Athens, 5000 Greek inscriptions of Macedonia had been collected until 1983 and were printed in books, and also that 10.000 names of Macedonians had been stored, without mentioning many inscriptions on coins and amphorae, which are not included. The Skopjans and those ignorant of history or naive that have been misled have been summoned and are still summoned to provide even one single inscription of the "Macedonian language" and we will recognise them as Macedonians.
It goes with saying that the entire historical background of the Library was Hellenistic and a happy amalgamation of two great civilisations, the Egyptian and the Greek; and that Alexander the Great and his successors were Greeks from Macedonia, a name that cannot be illegally and arbitrarily used by anybody. Moreover we must bear in mind that it was the Arab scholars who in the 8th century AD began to translate some of the works of the ancient Library into Arabic, especially the Alexandrian texts of ancient Greek philosophers and scientists, which were passed on to Europe where they were translated into Latin and through Renaissance became a precious intellectual property of humanity.
It is therefore the duty of all those who respect the historical truth to preserve the status of the new Library, which is offended by the Skopjans' donations. The keeping of their books is particularly incompatible with the Hellenistic period, whose name the Skopjans shamelessly sought to adopt years ago.
Therefore the recent delivery of books to the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, written in a language, which was concocted in 1945 is not more that an improvised version of the Bulgarian language and falsely presented as the "Macedonians' language", constitutes a serious offence not only to the people of Egypt and Greece, but also to everybody with elementary knowledge of history and common sense. I am sure you will agree that one of the cardinal obligations of the revived Ptolemaic Library is the preservation of the historical truth on all cultural and scientific matters. Therefore you would allow me to comment that the official acceptance of a number of books from Skopje under the usurped Hellenic name of "Macedonia" denigrates the status of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, which constitutes a major cultural event of the century.
An important and special role of the new Library of Alexandria is the fact that is has for some time now embarked on activities that transcend a library's conventional functions and goals and it appears to have widened its horizons with initiatives for social development and cultural reform of the larger region of the Middle East.
As a Macedonian, who fought in Alamein and still treasures beautiful memories of Egypt, where I lived for three and a half years during the Second World War, I had every reason to be a keen observer of all the stages of the construction of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, the much-awaited inauguration and the various programmes that followed and I appreciate how proud you must feel being the successor of the Ptolemaic Librarians.
It may perhaps be appropriate to quote here C.P. Cavafy's dictum "Oblivion is the demise of all political or international matters".
Please accept my most sincere wishes for every success in your supreme and difficult task, together with the expression of my high esteem.

Yours truly,
N. Martis Former Greek Government Minister
 
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