Macedonia Responds to Greece

[Bratot]

Re “Greece’s Flexibility on Macedonia”
(letter from the Greek ambassador to Washington, New York Times on the Web, April 3):


The Republic of Macedonia is a small and proud country.

After Greece’s veto of Macedonia’s invitation to join NATO, it is obvious that Greece’s intentions are aimed not at supporting permanent regional stability, but at damaging our neighbor relations, attacking our national identity and increasing political instability in the region.


It is unfortunate that the NATO summit meeting in Bucharest is overshadowed by such an irresponsible act by Greece. The Greek position seriously damages NATO’s plans for permanent peace and stability in the Balkans and erodes the foundations of NATO consensus principles.


The Republic of Macedonia has actively participated in and accepted the final proposal of Matthew Nimetz, the United Nations mediator for the name dispute.

This proposal was instantly rebutted from the Greek side, an act that has thrown away years of Mr. Nimetz’s diplomatic work.
Macedonia will prevail, will continue to support NATO missions, and we look forward to the next opportunity to join the club, but now it is much more likely that Macedonians will never agree to change their country’s name just to please our neighbors.


Vladimir Lazarevik
Deputy Minister of Health
Skopje, Macedonia, April 3, 2008



NYTIMES



Prevod:

​

Република Македонија е мала и горда земја. По грчкото вето на поканата за Македонија за членство во НАТО, очигледно е дека намерите на Грција се насочени не кон поддршка на трајната регионална стабилност, туку кон нанесување штета на нашите соседски односи, напаѓајќи го нашиот национален идентитет и зголемувајќи ја политичката нестабилност во регионот - пишува македонскиот заменик-министер за здравство Владимир Лазаревиќ во текст објавен во весникот Њујорк тајмс како одговор на писмото на грчкиот амбасадор во САД, Александрос Маљас.
- Штета е што самитот на НАТО во Букурешт е засенет со ваков неодговорен акт од страна на Грција. Грчката позиција сериозно нанесува штета на плановите на НАТО за мир и стабилност на Балканот и ги поткопува основите на принципите на консензус во НАТО - вели Лазаревиќ во одговорот на писмото на грчкиот амбасадор.
Според него, Грција го одби последниот предлог од посредникот на ОН во спорот со името, Метју Нимиц, акт што ги отфрли годините дипломатска работа на посредникот - вели македонскиот заменик-министер за здравство.
Лазаревиќ, уште пишува дека Македонија ќе ја победи ситуацијата и ќе продолжи да ги поддржува мисиите на НАТО, чекајќи ја наредната можност за приклучок кон клубот.

 

[Mac3donian]

hahah tuka vo amerika koa ke kazes macedonia salata italjanska mislat sme

 

[TpH_Bo_OkO]

Сите стапете во мала акција, и на „неутрален терен“ т.е. разноразни форуми, пласирајте ги ваквите вести...Јас конкретно го постирам ВББ насекаде:

There's a geographical region in South-Eastern Europe called Macedonia. It was a single geographical entity until the Balkan Wars in 1913 when it was divided between: Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania. Thats how Greece got its province of Macedonia (~50% of the whole region). There, the greek government imposed a harsh policy of ethnic cleansing and assimilation against the native ethnic Macedonians, and it also supported a colonisation of Greek refugees from Asia Minor, following the Greek-Turkish War in the 1920's. The part once given to Serbia, later succeded to liberate itself during the antifascist struggle in the WWII and to proclaim itself as the Republic of Macedonia in August 1944, which became independent from Yugoslavia in 1991, but the other parts remained under foreign annexation.

Similar cases:

1. There's an island called Ireland. Because of historical reasons similar to those described above, that geographical region became divided between the Republic of Ireland (an independent state like the Republic of Macedonia) and Northern Ireland, a constituent unit of another country- the United Kingdom (similar case as the Greek province of Macedonia). The British crown has imposed harsh measures on its Irish possesions, that also included colonising loyalist elements from Great Britain. Basically its the same story as with Greece. However, the difference is that, today the UK does not demand from the Republic of Ireland to change its constitutional name.

2. There's a geographical region called Greater Mongolia in Asia. Its divided between the Republic of Mongolia (an independent state); the so called "Inner Mongolia", an autonomous region within the People's Republic of China; and the Buryat Republic within the Russian Federation. As far as I know, PR China doesnt force the Republic of Mongolia to change its constitutional name.

3. There's an independent country Mexico in Central America, but also there's a federal constituent state New Mexico in the United States. I've never heard the USA demanding from Mexico to change its constitutional name.

Macedonia has never been Greek. Actually, a country called "Greece" has never existed until it was created by the Great Powers in the 19th century, as a product of the national- romanticism of the time, supported by various Western philhellenes such as the homosexual adventurist Byron and other charlatans. The freshly fabricated nation claimed "Ancient Greek" descendancy, though it was actually a mix of several different ethnic groups: Arvanites, Aromanians, Sarakatsani, Turks, Slavs and Roma forcibly assimilated into a compact Greek mass, which needed an identity that was easily forged by various pseudo-scientists such as the treasure hunter and paedophile Heinrich Schliemann.

Unlike the Roman Empire for instance, a single country called "Ancient Greece" be it a republic or a monarchy, unitarian or federal has never existed, instead, there were several separate city-states often fighting eachother: Athens, Sparta, Thebes etc., while Ancient Macedonia was a large kingdom, which had nothing incommon with them. A country named "Greece" also did not exist during the Medieval period. The territories considered greek today then belonged to the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire), and its inhabitants refered to themselfs as "Romans".

Its rather bizzare that Alexander the Great, once considered a barbarian by the Ancient Greeks, who defeated and occupied the Greek city-states, is now praised as a Greek national hero (imagine: Napoleon, a national hero of Russia). Moreover, most of the Greeks have mediterranian anthropological features similar to Italians, Spaniards, Turks and Arabs. Almost every stereotypical depiction of a typical Greek always features significantly darker skin complexion and darker hair color, whereas the historical records and the ancient art often represented Alexander as blonde.

Neverthless, the modern Greek state continues with these national-romantic policies. Recently, at the NATO Summit in Bucharest, Greece vetoed the Republic of Macedonia's long-awaited and hardly earned NATO accession.

Greece intentionally ignores the fact that the Republic of Macedonia was a de facto NATO member half a century ago:

Treaty of Alliance, Political Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance Between the Turkish Republic, the Kingdom of Greece, and the Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia (Balkan Pact)​

The former communist Yugoslavia signed the Balkan Pact of 1954 with the NATO member-states Greece and Turkey against a potential Soviet attack, and thus became a de facto NATO country. It was a turning point in president Tito's policy, because previously, in the 1940's, he supported the ethnic Macedonian communists in Greek Macedonia who fought in the Greek Civil War hoping to achieve a cultural authonomy. However, after the Tito-Stalin split of 1948, he had to find new allies against the Soviets, yet, without wishing to fully join the NATO, cause he wanted to remain Non-Aligned during the Cold War.

Today's Republic of Macedonia, prior to its independence declaration in 1991, was a constituent country (a costitutive federal state) of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, under the name the People's / Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Within the communist Yugoslav federation, Macedonia had a statehood, its own government, state symbols, police, territorial army (home guard), Academy of sciences and arts, Macedonian Orthodox Church and even a bureau for foreign affairs. As such, Republic of Macedonia is one of the internationaly recognized Yugoslavia's legal succesors, and practically it was one of the signatories of that agreement with Greece and NATO. Why no one mentions these facts?

But unfortunately Greece never stays loyal to any agreement. Few years after that pact, in the early 1960s, Greece received American nuclear weapons part of which, were pointed towards the Republic of Macedonia until recently. This highly controversial fact was recently publicized by one of the most relevant Greek newspapers "Ta Nea".

The history is repeating itself. Just few days ago, Greece breached another agreement, the 1995 Interim Accord. According to this agreement, Greece has no right to block Macedonia's integration in the international organizations (this incl. NATO).

C. INTERNATIONAL, MULTILATERAL AND REGIONAL INSTITUTIONS
Article 11

1. Upon entry into force of this Interim Accord, The Party of the First Part agrees not to object to the application by or the membership of the Party of the Second Part in international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions of which the Party of the First Part is a member; however, the Party of the First Part reserves the right to object to any membership referred to above if and to the extent of the Party of the Second Part is to be referred to in such organization or institution differently than in paragraph 2 of the United Nations Security Council resolution 817 (1993).

NOTE: Despite its obligations, Greece denied Macedonia from entering NATO even as FYROM.
But what can we do, the international agreements seem to mean nothing these days (UN Security Council Resolution 1244 rings a bell?)​

Although Mrs. Bakoyani, the Greek foreign minister is crying out loud now that "Greece is a old NATO member" who wont accept some "newcomer" such as the northern neighbour, Greece has never actually been a loyal NATO member.


Beside vetoing, Greece doesnt do much in NATO. The number of greek soldiers in Iraq is 0, while in Afghanistan is ~130 (strangely, the much smaller and weaker Republic of Macedonia has the same number of troops there, though its not a NATO member at all).


The Greek relations with NATO, the US and the Western powers in general have always been inconsistent:
On one hand:
- The Greek state was created with a Western support from the very start, and even its first king was a Bavarian - Otto of Greece. The Greeks thanked him by deposing him and he died miserably in exile. He was replaced by another foreigner, originaly a Danish prince, George I.
- The Greek state used the Western economic and military assistance to stop the communists from taking power, thus preventing the ethnic Macedonian minority who supported them from getting a cultural authonomy within a new communist Greece.

On the other hand:
- The Greeks rightfully criticize the shameful US role in the support of the notorious Greek Military Junta (1967-1974).
- The Greeks are also angry because of the perceived Western favourisation of Turkey in the Cyprus conflict, forgeting that it was Greece who was previously the US and British spoiled child during the Greek Civil War.
- Once again the anti-American sentiments arouse during the NATO strikes against the Greek traditional friend Serbia in 1999, in which Greece, although a NATO member, didnt take part.

Shortly speaking: when Greece needs NATO's support to achieve some selfish nationalistic goals- NATO is great and "Greece is an old proud NATO member". But otherwise- NATO its an imperialistic evil empire "created by the evil Zionist Jews to destroy Greece and the Orthodoxy" as would a typical Greek nationalist politician say these days (be it far right or left-wing, doesnt matter) .

Greece is a member of the Euro-Atlantic "free world" community only on paper, in reality it is not fullfiling the required democratic standards, it treats its ethnic minorities as citizens of a 2nd class, it constantly creates tensions with its neighbours (the "name dispute" unilaterally started from Greece), it has a long history of political oppression and dictatorships (Ioannis Metaxas, the Greek military junta 1967-1974..), and although its undoubtely the most developed economy in the Balkans, comparing to the Western and Northern European standards, its almost a third-world country, where unemployment, corruption and nepotism are everyday facts.

 

[Mac3donian]

super e ova barem nekoj ja napisal vistinata ali djabe, aj da se nadevame oti amerika ke udri malce na grcite

 

[Bratot]

Bravo Trnu!

 

[badluckguy]

:bravo::cug:

 

[^Exotic^]

Трну секоја чест.Прекрасен текст.

 

[Pere]

hahah tuka vo amerika koa ke kazes macedonia salata italjanska mislat sme

Епа зато пости лобирање...во кое и ти требе да се вклучиш објаснувајќи што е Македонија...тука во Данска повеќето ја знаат... башка газдата на станов во кој што живеам веќе е запознат со поновата историја и зошто тоа грција стави вето...исто така да е жив гугл типов се вљуби и во охридов...па мож налето ќе ни дој на одмор...заразлика однас Македонците кој одиме во гејлада...

Требе јасно и СИТЕ да ја изнесуваме вистината за Македонија само така обичните граѓани насекаде во светот ќе не запознаат зш тие не ја учат нашата историја....ни пак ги интересира..

 

[bube]

Пред да го поштам постов беше премногу долг, се решив да го избришам и да ги оставам некои работи во тајност се додека не излезат на виделина.......
Нас ни чука срцето за Македонија и несакаме само да сме тастатура патриоти............
Давајте предлози и идеи како да ја удриме Грција ,има луѓе што можат и сакаат да ги реализираат.

Не смееме више да седиме со скрстени раце!

 

[Павел Липранди]

1. There's an island called Ireland. Because of historical reasons similar to those described above, that geographical region became divided between the Republic of Ireland (an independent state like the Republic of Macedonia) and Northern Ireland, a constituent unit of another country- the United Kingdom (similar case as the Greek province of Macedonia). The British crown has imposed harsh measures on its Irish possesions, that also included colonising loyalist elements from Great Britain. Basically its the same story as with Greece. However, the difference is that, today the UK does not demand from the Republic of Ireland to change its constitutional name.

Ова е за Фуере. Би му го испратил со специјална посвета, и донакитено:

Драги наш Фуере,
со радост ќе ги прифатиме твоите совети да бидеме кооперативни и да постигнеме компромис со Грција по прашањето за името на нашата држава. Единствено што бараме однапред од тебе е: согласно со англиската поговорка “charity begins at home“, дај ни пример кој ќе го следиме. Предложи му на Парламентот на Република Ирска да донесе решение со кое, за да докаже дека нема никви иредентистички намери кон земјата под суверена власт на Нејзиното величество, Кралицата на Англија, го менува своето име и нема никогаш повеќе да го употреби зборот “ирски“ во ексклузивен смисол, на пример како име за нација.
Го имате нашиот цврст збор и ветувањем дека веднаш, истиот ден кога иескиот парламент ќе донесе вakва резолуција, и македонскиот парламент ќе го направи истото.
Вашите искрени пријатели.
хххх

Предлог - превод на англиски:


To our distingiuished friend
Mr. Edward Fuere


Excellency,

It is a great honour and privillege to be blessed with the level of attention you have permanently dedicateded to us, the Macedonian people. Being fully aware of the enormous importance of your rasponsible task, we are ready ro provide our willing contribution, by offering you the following proposal:

We will gladly accept yor advise to be cooperative and achieve a compromise with Greece regarding the name of our State. We only ask for a smal favor from you in return, to be provided beforehand. Since charity begins at home, we ask you to set an exapmle for us to follow. Would you, please, submit to the Parliament of the Republic of Ireland the request to bring on a declaration simillar to this one:

Understanding that Ireland does not belong and can not be reduced to a single political entity, and accepting the legitimate concerns of Her Majesty, The Queen of England, in regards to Irish iredentism, the Parliament of this State unequivocally decides:

A) To abolish the current name of the State, Republic of Ireland, and accept another name of the State for international use, a name that will not interfere with Her Majesty's national feelings and internal fears.
B) To use the word Irish only on non-exclusive manner. Under no circumstances, the national identity of any person in this State or anywhere else in the world will be reffered to as Irish, as this would imply threat to the undisputed sovereignty of Her Majesty The Queen of England over the irish lands of Ulster.

We may assure you, our distinguished friend, that immediately after the Irish Parliament rattifies the abovemetioned Declaration, the Macedonian Parliament will respond without waisting a minute. There will be no more international dispute issues in Europe.

With deepest respect,

xxx

 

[Misirkov]

Si dozvoliv da go korigiram. Znachi treba da izgleda vaka:

The Honorable Erwan Feuere
European Union Ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia

Honorable Ambassador Feuere,

It is a great privillege to receive the level of attention that you have continually provided us, the Macedonian people, on virtually all occasions in the past XX years since assuming your post. We are fully aware of the enormous importance of your task in our country -- the Republic of Macednia -- and considered your latest proposal to compromise the name of our country and thus our ethnic idenity.

We are ready ro provide our contribution and carry out your proposal on the condition that you consider and act on our counter-offer proposal. Because charity begins at home, we ask that you set an example for us, Macedonians, to follow beforehand.

Namely, we ask that you submit to the Parliament of the Republic of Ireland the request to bring on a declaration stipulating the following:

Understanding that Ireland does not belong and can not be reduced to a single political entity, and accepting the legitimate concerns of Her Majesty, The Queen of England, with regard to Irish iredentism, the Parliament of this State unequivocally decides:

A) To abolish the current name of the State, Republic of Ireland, and accept another name of the State for international use, a name that will not interfere with Her Majesty's national feelings and the British people's fears and national myths.

B) To use the word "Irish" solely in a non-exclusive manner. Under no circumstances the national identity of any person in this State or anywhere else in the world will be reffered to as Irish, as this would imply threat to the undisputed sovereignty of Her Majesty, The Queen of England, over the Irish lands of Ulster.

We may assure you, distinguished Ambassador, that immediately after the Irish Parliament ratifies the abovemetioned Declaration, the Macedonian Parliament will respond likewise. Perhaps many other may follow your proposal and the Irish example, and there will be no more international disputes in Europe and the world.

Sincerely,


The Macedonian people

 

[Misirkov]

- The Greeks rightfully criticize the shameful US role in the support of the notorious Greek Military Junta (1967-1974).

Ne i se meshaj na Amerika vo politikata, isfrli gi zborovite "rightly" i "shameful"!!!

Shortly speaking

Ne postoi takov izraz, tuku treba da kazhesh "In sum,..."

 

[TpH_Bo_OkO]

Е де, е де Затоа е ставен прво тука

 

[concrete]

Za Fuere prvo rasipani jajca koga ke se sretne nekade vo MKD....posle pisanija....
Toj ne gi svaka tie finesi....smetajki gi Makedoncite za stoka so koja moze da se postapuva po slobodna volja....kako samo pomisluvate Irskiot Pelament da go poistovetuva so ova primitivno Balkansko Sobranie???? ....

 

[Павел Липранди]

Si dozvoliv da go korigiram.

Корекциите се прифатени. Новата верзија (со уште неколку ситни исправки) е испратена до официјалната адреса на Мисијата на ЕЗ во БЈР Македонија. Потпишана од мене лично. Дали ќе помине низ секретарскиот филтер, не знам - но му посакувам на Фуере да ја прими пораката.

можам да си ги замислам сите 166 пратеници во Долниот Дом, ако им се прочита ваков предлог, како во еден глас ќе загрмат: "FUCK THE QUEEN!".



П.С. Извини concrete, ама предалеку ми е да го докачам со јајца. Плус, од Ирска е..