Потеклото на Албанците

nako

No1
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Гледам дека тука ептем муабетот го рзавивте за Албанците, но секој турчин кого ќе го прашате он ке ви каже тоа се Арнаути, а секој Албанец кого ке му кажеш дека е Арнаут се љути. Знае некој што точно и од каде потекнува тој збор АРНАУТ?
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Словенско племе = Илирско племе...

Приказните се автентични за овој народ, така да не е смешно...

После подолг период, и ти ќе се разбудиш, цел жива вода, и ќе се чудиш, ќе си викаш МОРЕ МАЈКАТА ШО СОН ЌЕ БЕШЕ ТОА...

Илири=Славјани, оваа помисла му доаѓа само на човек кој има силен комплекс од Славјанизмот, и антиката му е фантазмагорија, недостапна.

Инаку како и Албанскиот така и Македонскиот се Сатем јазици. Знаеш што ти зборувам.

Инаку Косово нема да се мења, туку ќе се анектира, и ќе си стане тоа што требало да биде во 1912 година.

Ќе стане Албанска ФЕДЕРАЦИЈА, и ќе има еден плус, ќе може да игра фудбал во купот на конфедерации на светот.
 
A

anaveno

Гостин
vi izgleda da birate jedino slike de su ruzni ljudi i na taj nacin prestavljate nas albance, a to dovoljno govori o nivou vase frustiranosti i opterecenosti predrasudama u odnosu na nas...
he..he....
tebe ti lici na neubav covek ovoj ALBANEC?
mene mi lici na ROM.
ne se dzabe 47% takvite geni.

pa sto ako e rom?
nisto,ne e togas ilir.

frustriranost od romite?

glupost...gi imam site pesni od Ferus....

i,od kade znaes deka ne si servin ili makedonec,koga nosis takov gen?
ili toj gen e specijalno albanski?

pigassovski ne kazuva,se sramuva....
aj ti kazi ni koj e Azreti Imer od prikazkite vi?
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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За E3b1, вика вака Стивен Брд и Андреј Ланкастер...

It is "dominant" if you consider that it sometimes outnumbers the next biggest haplogroup by 2 to 1: viz, the Macedonian population in northern Greece, and populations in Albania and Kosovo. Also, the V13 populations in Macedonia (both sides of the Greek border) are among the oldest in the Balkans, even among the ethnic Albanians living in FYROM.

I would be comfortable in asserting that the main (Bronze Age) expansion of V13 must have come from the Axios/Vardar-Morava-Danube corridor and spread by riverine and probably maritime routes to other parts of Europe. I still get the sense (even with incomplete information) that it drops off quite rapidly north of the Jiricek line and west of Sicily. It may have expanded, but did not spread all that far during the BA and IA.

An interesting interaction that is alluded to by several archaeological authors is the proposed one between the Neolithic community of Starcevo (which was not doing so well apparently) and the Mesolithic hunter-gatherer settlements of the Danube Iron Gates (Lepenski Vir in particular), which was doing far better than Starcevo. These cultures were CONTEMPORARY! That fact could be the basis for Battaglia's theorizing about V13 being mesolithic, but of course there are no modern populations living in the Iron Gates region (because it is now under water from a hydroelectric dam!). So I don't know how one would test such a hypothesis.

Anyway, the interaction of these two cultures is theorized to have produced the Vinca culture, the first successful Neolithic culture of the region. Interestingly, it is centered on the very region that characterizes V13's most frequent appearance and, in some cases, great antiquity to coalescence. Curiously, it was the Lepenski Vir culture that adapted to the Starcevo one, even though the Starcevo culture was less successful initially.


Steve

Додека за ова... т.е. шпекулациите на Србофилските науки...

http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/racial-images-of-albanians

http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/2009/06/06/albanopolis-and-shqiptars

Одговорот на ова од Стивен Брд е следниот

Hi Picasso,

I can make a few definite observations about the Roma and V13. It would appear that all E1b1ba2 Roma haplotypes are probably the result of intermarriage with the local population of the Balkans, at a low but significant percentage. There is no presence whatsoever of V13 in the homeland of the Roma, that is, the Indian subcontinent. This was demonstrated conclusively by Sengupta et al 2006. All V13 haplotypes for the Roma coalesce no earlier than about 1100 A.D., which of course corresponds with their first arrival in the Balkans. H1 is another matter: it represents a much older founding population from the Indian subcontinent.

I think there is a lot of evidence to support the strong association between ethnic Albanians (found in whatever country today) and E-V13. V13 is clearly at least Bronze Age in origin, however it is probably not exclusively associated with the Albanians. Note that it is present in somewhat lower percentages (about 20%) among Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks and Macedonians. So my view is that it represents a much older substrate of the general male population of the southern Balkans (below the Danube), perhaps even of mesolithic origin.

Illyria, Thracian and Dacia didn't exist yet at the time of its introduction to the Balkans... let alone Albania, Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria. Anyway that's my present understanding, which could change depending on the evidence, as it accumulates.

The Kopanski study has been discredited completely, as it was funded by a political group seeking a predetermined outcome. The basic science is also not very good.

Welcome to the list!

Steve

Јасно е?

Не да ме мучите да го прашувам човекот и да го малтретирам...

Многу малку треба, за да е јасно, само КЛИКЕР...
 
A

anaveno

Гостин

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/24/6/1300
bird..koj visoko leta....na geni paga....


Атанасије Урошевић је испитивао 1929. године арбанашка племена на Косову и Метохији у вези њиховог порекла према предању које код њих живи. Сви Арбанаси, без разлике, испричали су му исту причу, као и њихове хоџе такође. Предање које су му изнели било је следеће:
Најчешће се оно састоји само у томе што за стару постојбину свих Арбанаса узима се Арабија.

shqiptars

shqiptar
Понекад је то изражено и у пригодним причама.” Сви су знали да их је из Арабије довео човек који се звао Азрети Имер,
(4).
4. Атанасије Урошевић: Једна традиција о пореклу Арбанаса, ГЛАСНИК скопског научног друштва, Скопље, 1929. Т. 2, с. 311.

shqiperia prazna?
pozdrav do Азрети Имер

p.s..
aj sega,da slusneme kako ste dosle od Arabija.....
prasajte gi dedovcite i prenesete...
ako ne vi e sram....

Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Arabija,ili Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Kavkaz-Kurdistan?
 
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Словенско племе = Илирско племе...

Приказните се автентични за овој народ, така да не е смешно...

После подолг период, и ти ќе се разбудиш, цел жива вода, и ќе се чудиш, ќе си викаш МОРЕ МАЈКАТА ШО СОН ЌЕ БЕШЕ ТОА...

Илири=Славјани, оваа помисла му доаѓа само на човек кој има силен комплекс од Славјанизмот, и антиката му е фантазмагорија, недостапна.

Инаку како и Албанскиот така и Македонскиот се Сатем јазици. Знаеш што ти зборувам.

Инаку Косово нема да се мења, туку ќе се анектира, и ќе си стане тоа што требало да биде во 1912 година.

Ќе стане Албанска ФЕДЕРАЦИЈА, и ќе има еден плус, ќе може да игра фудбал во купот на конфедерации на светот.
Veke celosno padnaa maskite i se vide vistinskoto lice na "placi-ligusite za osnovnite covekovi prava". Samo kukavte i se ligavevte pred cel svet deka vi se odzemeni osnovni covekovi i nacionalni prava. Dosega diplomatijata uspevase da ja zalazuva svetskata javnost so prikazni za "sproveduvanje na osnovni covekovi prava na placi-liglinjata" koj se krieja celo vreme pod fustanot na EU i USA. Veke na cel svet mu stanuva jasno deka zad vakvi kukulekanja na Skiptarlaanata se krijat bolni i nastrani nacionalisticki fantazii. Ovie vakvi i slicni forumi na najdobar nacin gi otkrivaat i razotkrivaat ovie nacionalisticki nastranosti i pretenzii, namesto da se vrsi politicko istrazuvanje dovolno e da se poglednat vakvi forumi, vrsat golema rabota, na svetot mu gi otkrivaat vasite perverzni politicki ambicii, veke na site im e jasno ova, a vie bidejki sami nisto ne umeete da sozdadete, istorijata toa go potvrduva, ova samo ke ostane vasa izopacena pusta zelba, bidejki na site im e zgadeno veke od ovie vasi nastrani nacionalisticki ambicii.
 

nako

No1
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За Пикасо и Ујкан - Зашто турците ве викаат Арнаути и дали сте се запрашале од каде доаѓа тој збор и што означува? Кога ке си одговорите на ова прашање тогаш ќе ви биде јасно од каде доаѓате и кои се албанците, се до тогаш се е дрн-дрн.


shqiptars

aj sega,da slusneme kako ste dosle od Arabija.....
prasajte gi dedovcite i prenesete...
ako ne vi e sram....

Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Arabija,ili Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Kavkaz-Kurdistan?

едитирано од модераторот
 
A

anaveno

Гостин
Атанасије Урошевић је испитивао 1929. године арбанашка племена на Косову и Метохији у вези њиховог порекла према предању које код њих живи. Сви Арбанаси, без разлике, испричали су му исту причу, као и њихове хоџе такође. Предање које су му изнели било је следеће:
Најчешће се оно састоји само у томе што за стару постојбину свих Арбанаса узима се Арабија.

Понекад је то изражено и у пригодним причама.” Сви су знали да их је из Арабије довео човек који се звао Азрети Имер,(4).
4. Атанасије Урошевић: Једна традиција о пореклу Арбанаса, ГЛАСНИК скопског научног друштва, Скопље, 1929. Т. 2, с. 311.

aj sega,da slusneme kako ste dosle od Arabija.....
prasajte gi dedovcite i prenesete...
ako ne vi e sram....
eh,srbite im podmetnale za Arabija...:vozbud:
aj da vidime prikaznata,koja nesakaat da ja kazat.

Shqipot go spomnuva Ali Pasha Tepelene kako niven predok.
vistinski pretstavnik na Arnautot-Shqipot.

a sto zborel Ali za svoeto poteklo?

vo knigata Za Ali od 1836 g. ,znaci,pred servskite propagandi,posetitelot na zemjite kade sto imalo "Albanci" zapisal deka:
Some uncertainty hangs also over the origin of his family.
The surname borne by the family is Hissas ; and he affirmed that he was descended from Issa, or Jesus, the head of an ancient Natolian race, who passed from Asia Minor into Epirus, with the hordes of that Bajazet whose rapid movements and destructive progress gained for him the appellation Ilderim or lightning.


Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Arabija,ili Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Kavkaz-Kurdistan?

i malku za laznoto ilirsko il=svetlo,bog kaj Arnaut-Shqipot.
..with the hordes of that Bajazet whose rapid movements and destructive progress gained for him the appellation Ilderim or lightning.

Though the name of Albanians is that by which they are generally known throughout Europe, the appellation is not recognised by the natives; they call themselves Skipetars, and their country Skiperi.
Their language is peculiar to themselves, and bears no resemblance to any of the idioms of the neighbouring nations.
dali uste bile taze dojdeni,pa vo nivniot jazik ne navlegle nasite zborovi?
They are divided into tribes, of which the principal are the Guegues; the Mirdites, who are of the Latin church ; the Toske, Toskides, or Toxides; the Tzami; and the Liape, which is the poorest, and the most dirty and predatory of them all.


Females are less numerous than males...
ova poradi vleckanjeto Ordi na razbojnici od Turcite...
posledica:naebaa mongolskite ovci kaj arnaut-shqipot
The Life Of Ali Pasha Of Tepelini, Vizie


klasicen opis na ORDI,a ne na domicilno naselenie.....

svako moze da primeti da je na kod Abanaca puno plavih ljudi i da je mnogo
svetlookih. to je sigurno tako sto su dosli iz arabije ili kavkaza
ne se site Albanci dojdeni so turcite od Kavkaz-Kurdistan i Arabija.
ima megu niv mnogu Makedonci,Vlasi,...
belite se tie....

eve i "beli" shqipci...

edniot a la Sadam Husein,drugiot kako od PM....
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/24/6/1300
bird..koj visoko leta....na geni paga....


Атанасије Урошевић је испитивао 1929. године арбанашка племена на Косову и Метохији у вези њиховог порекла према предању које код њих живи. Сви Арбанаси, без разлике, испричали су му исту причу, као и њихове хоџе такође. Предање које су му изнели било је следеће:
Најчешће се оно састоји само у томе што за стару постојбину свих Арбанаса узима се Арабија.

shqiptars

shqiptar
Понекад је то изражено и у пригодним причама.” Сви су знали да их је из Арабије довео човек који се звао Азрети Имер, (4).
4. Атанасије Урошевић: Једна традиција о пореклу Арбанаса, ГЛАСНИК скопског научног друштва, Скопље, 1929. Т. 2, с. 311.

shqiperia prazna?
pozdrav do Азрети Имер

p.s..
aj sega,da slusneme kako ste dosle od Arabija.....
prasajte gi dedovcite i prenesete...
ako ne vi e sram....

Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Arabija,ili Arnautot ili Shqipot e od Kavkaz-Kurdistan?
Пак не разбираш, пак не разбираш и пак не разбираш.

Пак се најде на тесно и пак не можеш соодветно да одговориш.

Пак со слики, пак со глупости, пак постираш слики од НЕАЛБАЦИ, пак Кафказ, Мафказ, без докази, куцал некој за Кафкац и Арабија, оп, ни се допаѓа ај ќе го земеме како доказ, не ни се допаѓа некој факт односно 80%, оп ПОЛИТИКА.

А дека цел свет, го мисли ова:

Hi Picasso,

I can make a few definite observations about the Roma and V13. It would appear that all E1b1ba2 Roma haplotypes are probably the result of intermarriage with the local population of the Balkans, at a low but significant percentage. There is no presence whatsoever of V13 in the homeland of the Roma, that is, the Indian subcontinent. This was demonstrated conclusively by Sengupta et al 2006. All V13 haplotypes for the Roma coalesce no earlier than about 1100 A.D., which of course corresponds with their first arrival in the Balkans. H1 is another matter: it represents a much older founding population from the Indian subcontinent.

I think there is a lot of evidence to support the strong association between ethnic Albanians (found in whatever country today) and E-V13. V13 is clearly at least Bronze Age in origin, however it is probably not exclusively associated with the Albanians. Note that it is present in somewhat lower percentages (about 20%) among Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks and Macedonians. So my view is that it represents a much older substrate of the general male population of the southern Balkans (below the Danube), perhaps even of mesolithic origin.

Illyria, Thracian and Dacia didn't exist yet at the time of its introduction to the Balkans... let alone Albania, Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria. Anyway that's my present understanding, which could change depending on the evidence, as it accumulates.

The Kopanski study has been discredited completely, as it was funded by a political group seeking a predetermined outcome. The basic science is also not very good.

Welcome to the list!

Steve

I agree with Steve that there is no reason to associate E-M78 specifically with Roma in the Balkans, although as residents there for many centuries, they, like their neighbours are oftern in this haplogroup.

More generally, your question is about which Balkan tribes in relatively historical times can be specifically associated with E-M78. I agree with Pharos that E-M78 in the Balkans is much much older than any tribes we know of from written historical. It is quite likely that all Balkan communities have had a strong E-M78 presence since at least the Bronze age, and probably since the stone age. The exact percentages will have gone up and down over the 1000s of years.

Steve is correct to say that in recent times Albanian speaking areas appear to have the highest levels of presence, but we should always remember that we have very little information about who the ancestors of the Albanians were before Roman times. For example, some people would suggest that they may be an isolated Balkan population which has simply had less mixing from other areas. Why I mention this is that it means that before the Roman/ Byzantine/ Turkish empires E-M78 (and maybe even the Albanian language) could have been more common in many more areas than today.

Best Regards
Andrew


this is the culture bloodline of most Shqiptar.

you see picasso' most Shiqtar do believe that they are Illyrians and that the Illyrians are Pelasgians.

according to dna we can make this assumption. and with this assumption i am posting it is true that Albanians descend from Illyrians and Pelasgians. possibly thracians are related.



1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham,_son_of_Noah
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cush_(Bible)
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phut
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_(Biblical_character)
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizraim
3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caphtorim

Deuteronomy 2:23 records that the Caphtorites came from Caphtor, destroyed the Avvites and usurped their land. The Talmud (Chullin 60b) notes that the Avvites were the original Philistine people in the days of Abraham while the Philistines of later times were descended from the conquering Caphtorites.

3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casluhim
4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

The Philistines lost their independence to Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria by 732 BC, and revolts in following years were all crushed. Later, Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon eventually conquered all of Syria and the Kingdom of Judah, and the former Philistine cities became part of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. There are few references to the Philistines after this time period

this would have been a good time for Es to become Jewish

И ова е политика, плачипико-славјански сурати, под влијание на лошите ни сврби, со закржлавени фантазии од 2001 конфликти, желби за најстар и древен, тропаат вакви работи!

Ова го мислат научниците, генетичарите.

Руски историчари, германски, англиски, италијански, амерички, го делат истото мислење....
Еми Ajnaveno не мислел така, оти некој му дал слики кај што биле на фотка башибозук од кој знае каде, сликани во Косово, и ОП, еве биле роми, биле арапи, биле марсовци биле Кинези...

И уше нешо да разбериш со генетиката!

The Kopanski study has been discredited completely, as it was funded by a political group seeking a predetermined outcome. The basic science is also not very good.
Бејзик сајенс, не е сајенс. Разбираш замутерен?

Veke celosno padnaa maskite i se vide vistinskoto lice na "placi-ligusite za osnovnite covekovi prava". Samo kukavte i se ligavevte pred cel svet deka vi se odzemeni osnovni covekovi i nacionalni prava. Dosega diplomatijata uspevase da ja zalazuva svetskata javnost so prikazni za "sproveduvanje na osnovni covekovi prava na placi-liglinjata" koj se krieja celo vreme pod fustanot na EU i USA. Veke na cel svet mu stanuva jasno deka zad vakvi kukulekanja na Skiptarlaanata se krijat bolni i nastrani nacionalisticki fantazii. Ovie vakvi i slicni forumi na najdobar nacin gi otkrivaat i razotkrivaat ovie nacionalisticki nastranosti i pretenzii, namesto da se vrsi politicko istrazuvanje dovolno e da se poglednat vakvi forumi, vrsat golema rabota, na svetot mu gi otkrivaat vasite perverzni politicki ambicii, veke na site im e jasno ova, a vie bidejki sami nisto ne umeete da sozdadete, istorijata toa go potvrduva, ova samo ke ostane vasa izopacena pusta zelba, bidejki na site im e zgadeno veke od ovie vasi nastrani nacionalisticki ambicii.
Еве на крај, коа пред науката ќе молчат боговите, офците кои даваат добра волна, ќе почнат да блекаат... БЛЕЕЕ, БЛЕЕЕ, БЛЕЕЕ...

Политика,... Политика,... И ПОЛИТИКА... ФРОМ ЈУ СЛАВИК-СРБОМАКЕДОНИАН!

dovolno e da se poglednat vakvi forumi
Тешко, тешко... Србо-Македоно-Славјански ДА!

Други не! Не е чудно, Славјаните се од курлесимадлевци дојдени тука.. А научниците ги постирав, ако сакаш ќе ти дадам и нивни трудови па да читнеш нешто.

Имаме многу интересна ствар, што Историјата како наука која се базира на пишани документи, археолошки пронајдоци, лингвистика итн... Но најмногу на пишани историски документи.
Имаме често проблем, а тоа е различното гледиште на авторот. Често има дихотомија во фактите, и не секогаш некој тип пишувал точно.

Поради не едногласноста на ИСТОРИЈАТА во однос на одредени историски моменти, ние сме во искушение да бираме, да чекираме, кое за нас е најрационално и кое е најприфатливо, сепак утилитарно... Градење на цела историја врз едната палета која нас ни одговара, без разлика во кој контекст на космичките апсолутизми на нашата егзистенција во земјинава топка... Сепак е субјективно...

Додека, имаме друг начин а тоа е начинот на генетиката, и генетските истражувања, кои според многумина, ама навистина многумина е најточен исказ и резултат...

Така врз резултатите на генетските истражувања се гради приказната за еден народ, затоа и се нарекува ИСТОРИЈА, односно СТОРИЈА, приказна... И во тој сектор има исто така момци кои за да привлечат внимание куцаат што ќе им текне, но тука се вистинските момци за да ги поправат, и да им кажат дека грешат, и дека со неконформизам не се стануе голем човек, само затоа што неконформизмот ја наговестува вистината...
Така...

Славјано-Македонците, после 2001 година имаат асални шанси и желби да докажуваат, зборуваат, истражуваат на најразлични полиња на приказната на народот кој живее на запад од државата...

Истите обвинувања може да се чујат и од Грција, и од Албанија, и од Србија... Дека Македонците се вакви, такви, дојденци... немаат веза со антиката итн...

Затоа славјано-маќедончиња, ја ви опростувам, не верувајте во теориите на албанците, добро е што оние кои треба да веруваат веруваат...
 

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ЕВЕ ГИ И РУСИТЕ...

Haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) - Modern Descendants of Ancient Egyptians


I want to tell you shortly about the paper.
This paper has been written by me together with the professor A. Klyosov http://aklyosov.home.comcast.net/~aklyosov/ and has been published in April, 2009 in Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, Vol. 2, No. 4 http://stores.lulu.com/temosh .
In this paper we used haplotypes from papers of Cruciani (2007) and Battaglia (2008).


Professor A. Klyosov has constructed trees of haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) and its subclades and has calculated age of each subgroup and haplogroup E1b1b1a as a whole.
And I wrote comments to each subgroup and about E1b1b1a (M78).

Professor A. Klyosov does not use EE rates for calculations, but he uses correction for back mutations http://precedings.nature.com/documents/2733/version/1.
http://www.worldacademy.org/files/DNA_genealogy_Part_1.pdf
http://www.worldacademy.org/files/DNA_Genealogy_Part_2.pdf


On the basis of trees and calculations of age I have drawn a conclusion that haplogroup E1b1b1a-M78 was the main haplogroup which stood at sources of the Egyptian civilization.
Therefore I named it as “Y-Chromosome Mizraim”.

Haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) - Modern Descendants of Ancient Egyptians

Sergey V. Lutak and Anatole A. Klyosov

2009

Preface

The question about where and when the ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b1 (M35) lived is not solved until now. The majority of authors agree that the ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b1 (M35) lived in the Upper Paleolith from 15 to 30 thousand years ago.
Concerning a place, there are two basic locations for the origin of M35: East Africa (Horn of Africa, Ethiopia) and Middle East (Arabia). However, these details of a place and time are not so important for us. It is important that all researchers said: in XII millenium BC the people belonging to haplogroup E1b1b1 (M35) lived in Ethiopia, were hunter-gatherers, and spoke Proto-Hamito-Semitic language.

The hypothesis of linguists Igor Diakonoff and Lionel Bender localizes the native land of Hamito-Semitic (Afro-Asiatic) languages in Southeast Sahara and in adjoining areas of East Africa. At that time these territories were still favorable for human life. If hypothesis of Igor Diakonoff and Lionel Bender is true, the initial carrier of Hamito-Semitic languages was haplogroup E1b1b1 (M35). Later when Hamites of E-subclades have moved to the Near East, they have transferred Proto-Hamito-Semitic language to haplogroup J1 (Semites), ancestors of modern Arabs and Jews.

Approximately in the beginning of XI millennium BC the climate on the Earth began to change, and not to the best. The epoch of heat and high humidity had ended. The long period of cold and arid climate had come.

Possibly, these changes of a climate promoted that the Hamitic tribes of East Africa belonging mainly to haplogroup E1b1b1-M35, have begun the movement from Ethiopia on the north, in areas more favorable for life. At first – to Nubia, and later - to Egypt which was only slightly populated that time. So, for example, culture Esna existing 12-16 thousand years ago in the Upper Egypt, had disappeared, not having left successors.

In Nubia the situation was a different one. It is probable at the same time (or some later) when Hamitic tribes E1b1b1 began to occupy Nubia from the southeast, from the southwest there have come Nilotes and other tribes speaking in Nilo-Saharan languages and having mainly haplogroup A3b2 and, to a lesser degree, haplogroup B. On some reason to Egypt have moved mainly Hamites E1b1b1. Nilotes A3b2 had remained in Nubia. In due course, the most part of the population of Nubia, irrespective of a primary origin, had switched to Nilo-Saharan languages.

The Hamitic men having SNP-mutations M35, have occupied Nubia 12 thousand years ago and began to move into Egypt. Generations changed each other, people were born and died, and at some point from the father having SNP M35, the son with additional SNP-mutation M78 was born. This boy became the founder of clan E1b1b1a-M78.
Y-haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) is currently extended to the people of South-East and Southern Europe (Albanians, Greeks, Macedonians-Slavs and Southern Italians), North-East and East Africa (Egyptian Arabs and Copts, Western Sudanians, Somalis and Ethiopians) and, to a lesser degree, Western Asia (Turks-Cypriotes, Arabs-Druzs and Palestinian Arabs). From approximately 400 haplotypes E-M78 in database of YSearch, 12 persons (that is 3 %) have specified the native land Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

Having compared mutations in 448 haplotypes of nowadays living men having SNP-mutation M78, from 65 populations of Europe, Africa and Asia, we have calculated, that the common ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b1a was born at least 9975±1500 years bp (see the end of this article). It was, possibly, in Libyan desert which at that time represented the fertile lowland fed with waters of Nile. To a question of the native land and life time of the founder of clan E1b1b1a-M78 we still will return, after the description of all subgroups.

According to many historians, in particular Michael Haag and Béatrix Midant-Reynes, during the period between 12 and 8 thousand years ago territory of Egypt (especially the valley of Nile) was gradually occupied by new tribes which were hunter-gatherers and fishermen. These tribes, apparently, belonged to east and western branches of Hamites and differed from each other by the anthropological and genetic accessory.

Apparently, the date of birth of the common ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b1a-M78 is necessary for the period of beginning Hamitics expansion into Egypt.

However, settling of Egypt by new tribes occurred not only from the south (from Nubia), but also from the West (from Sahara). From the south mainly went East Hamites E1b1b1, belonging to Cushitic Big Branch of the Western Racial Trunk. From the West into Egypt moved Western Hamitics E1a (and, probably, E1b1a), possibly, belonging to African Big Branch of Tropical Racial Trunk. Hamitic tribes originally lodged along steep edge of a deserted plateau over a valley of Nile and on borders of the Fayum oasis and Delta.

About 11300 years ago in Sahara the Period of Rains has begun. Period of Rains has softened a climate and has revived a life in desert. It has led to repeated settling of Libyan Desert. And here, instead of in a valley of Nile, for the first time about 9 thousand years ago has appeared cattle breeding and agriculture. Only about 8 thousand years ago when the Period of Rains has ended, and the desert became again lifeless, inhabitants have left it. Hamitic tribes gradually moved in a valley of Nile from a plateau turning to desert, in due course passing to a settled way of life.
Haplogroups of modern Egypt according to Luis et al. (2004) [data are a little approximated]:


E – 40% (58/147)
… E1b1b1a (M78)…. 18%
… E1b1b1b (M81)…... 8, 2 %
… E1b1b1c (M123)…. 6, 8 %
… E1b1b1* (M35)…... 2, 7 %
… E1b1a7 (M191)…... 1, 4 %
… E1b1a* (M2)……... 1, 4 %
… E1a* (M33)………... 1, 4 %
J – 32% (47/147)
… J (x J2)…………… 20%
… J2 (x J2a2, J2b)…… 8, 2 %
… J2a2 (M67)……… 2, 7 %
… J2b (M12)……… 0, 7 %
K (x R1, R2) – 8, 8 % (13/147)
G (M201) – 8, 8 % (13/147)
T (M70) – 8, 2 % (12/147)
R – 7, 5 % (11/147)
… R1a1 (M17)…….. 2, 7 %
… R1b1b2 (M269)… 2, 0 %
… R1 ……………… 2, 0 %
… R2 (M124)……… 0, 7 %
A3b2 (M13) – 2, 7 % (4/147)
P (x R1, R2) – 0, 7 % (1/147)
I (M170) – 0, 7 % (1/147)

On these data, Haplogroup E, presented by different subclades (half of all E-subclades is E1b1b1a-M78) is prevailing among the modern population of Egypt (40 %). This is despite a powerful Arabian expansion of haplogroup J from the Near East in the Middle Ages. Subclades of haplogroup J now make 32 % of the population of Egypt.

It is important to notice, that from all modern Egyptian Haplogroups only Subclades of haplogroup E1b1b1 (except E-M123) and E1b1a, and also E1a and A3b2 have the African origin.
Other Y-haplogroups have got to Egypt (mainly, in Northern) during the different periods of time from Asia and East Mediterranean. The first by time we can name intrusion of the Asian people in 22nd century BC, then there was an arrival of Hyksos in 17 century BC and disembarkation of "the sea people” in 13 and 12 centuries BC (their descendants – mashuashu). In the I millenium BC there were intrusions of Libyans, Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians. During Our (Christian) Era Egypt was visited serially by Romans, Arabs and Turks. All of them, undoubtedly, have left the genetic trace in Egypt which we see and now in a kind of haplogroups J, K, G, T, R, P and I.

Let's pass more in detail to haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) and its subgroups. For the last 11 thousand years generations varied, people were born and died, and from fathers having SNP M78 sons with new SNP-mutations were born.

According to classification of the International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG) 2009 haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) includes five subclades:
E1b1b1a1 (V12), E1b1b1a2 (V13), E1b1b1a3 (V22), E1b1b1a4 (V65) and E1b1b1a5 (M521). Except listed five, it is possible to allocate also sixth subclade E-M78 *, i.e. not having descending SNP-mutations.



Subclades received their numbers as their opening, i.e. in the beginning have been opened SNP V12, then V13 etc. We will break this order and we will tell you about subgroups E1b1b1a as their occurrence, since the oldest and finishing the most recent.

Average rate of mutations in 11-markers haplotypes

The majority of haplotypes used in the present work are 11-markers ones.
(DYS 19, 413a, 393, 460, 461, 413b, 391, 439, GATAA10, YCAIIa, YCAIIb).
It is not a standard format of haplotypes, and the calibrated values of average rate of mutations for these haplotypes are not present in the literature.

For calibration we used a series of 88 haplotypes of the MacDonald clan (Klyosov, 2008a; 2009) which contain 34 mutations per listed 736 markers (not all 88 haplotypes contained all these 11 specified markers). Since the common ancestor of the given clan Lord John of Isles died in 1386, that is about 650 years, or 26 generations back (if to set a generation for 25 years). The number of years per generation in this case can be set as any, since it is tied to the 650 years. If for example, we set 50 years per generation, then Lord John lived 13 generations ago. It will be still 650 years. In other words, if we pick 25 years per generation, and calculate mutation rates per generation, we calculate mutation rates per generation of 25 years. 25 years per generation sounds reasonably for a common person. If someone likes 65 years per generation, or 30 years per generation on that matter, hence, considers that Lord John lived 10 or 21.7 generations back, respectively, it would just change the average mutation rate, but lives 650 years. In this work we consider that Lord John lived 650 years back, that is 26 generations with 25 years per generation. We take it as a mathematical value. Changing the number of years per generation would change the average mutation rate constant, but the final result in years to a common ancestor would be the same. Hence, no more discussion on that matter

34 mutations on 736 markers per 26 generations will occur at average mutation rate of 34/736/26 = 0.0018 mutations in a marker per generation (of 25 years), or 0.02 mutations in 11-markers haplotype per generation. We will apply these values in all calculations using mutations in 11-marker haplotype.
 

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Haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) - Modern Descendants of Ancient Egyptians

Sergey V. Lutak and Anatole A. Klyosov

2009

(continuation of the paper)



E1b1b1a*-M78

Currently, the haplogroup E-M78* is very rare. Only 13 males, having it, were identified in various populations: Southern Egypt (2), Morocco (2), Sudan (2), Sardinia (1), Albania (2), Hungary (1), England (1), Denmark (1) and Northwest Russia (1).

The greatest concentration E-M78* (5,9 %) has been found out by Cruciani et al. in 2007 among Arabs in oasis Gurna (near Luxor) in Southern Egypt.

There were only five (out of those 13) E-M78*-haplotypes available to us: two from Southern Egypt, two from Morocco and one from Sardinia. These haplotypes pointed out at the following base (that is, apparent ancestral) haplotype, whose alleles have minimal distances from those from the five haplotypes mentioned above:

13-25-13-10-11-21-10-12-12-21-19.

55 markers of the five 11-markers haplotypes contained 23 mutations, that gives 7500 years to their common ancestor. This value is received as follows: 23/55/0.0018 = 232 generations to the common ancestor, and a correction for back mutations gives 300 generations, that is 7500 years. The Table for corrections for back mutations is given in
http://www.worldacademy.org/files/DNA_genealogy_Part_1.pdf

A method of calculation of standard deviations for years to a common ancestor is given in the same paper (see ref. above). For the given value of 7500 years, taking into account the number of considered haplotypes and the number of mutations in them, it results in 7500±1725 years to a common ancestor of those five individuals of haplogroup E-M78*.

It is possible to consider Southern Egypt as the most probable native land for E1b1b1a*-M78. About 8000 years ago in Sahara the Period of Rains has ended and meadows began to turn to desert. Shepherds and farmers of Libyan Desert began to move to a valley of Nile. Possibly, the founder of subclade E-M78* was born among those who has left for a southern part of a valley. Later his descendants or other representatives of haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) have created one of the most ancient agricultures of the Upper Egypt - Naqada (I, I I and I I I, 6000-5000 years ago) which has extended in all territory of Ancient Egypt.
However, in Upper Egypt there was also more ancient than Naqada culture Badari (6400-6000 years ago), but, judging by an anthropological accessory of the human remains found there, it could be created by haplogroups E1a or E1b1a.

Culture Naqada has gradually developed from several small agricultural communities into powerful civilization whose leaders have got the power over the population and resources of a valley of Nile. About 5 thousand years ago Pharaoh of the Upper Egypt has united all country under his power.



E1b1b1a3 (V22)

We have published a E-V22 haplotype tree, containing 79 haplotypes from 28 populations. The tree turned out to be remarkably symmetrical, which indicates at a single common ancestor for all 79 individuals. The series of haplotypes contains 264 mutations from the following 11-marker base haplotype.

14-23-13-11-10-22-10-12-12-22-19

It corresponds to 5075±600 years to a common ancestor.

There are no separate distinct branches on the E-V22 tree, which might give an indication of their origin. Hence, it is difficult to define a source of distribution E-V22. Therefore in this case, criteria for definition of a place of occurrence E1b1b1a3 (V22) had been chosen as follows:
1. A fraction of E-V22 in modern population;
2. Prevalence of haplotypes of population on various branches of a tree, or their genetic diversity;
3. Historical probability.

According to the first two criteria, two apparent locations were identified: delta of Nile and oasis Bahariya. Now we know that the common ancestor of E-V22, at least for those 79 individuals, lived 5075±600 years ago with the 95% probability.
Time of life of E1b1b1a3 (V22) ancestor coincides with the important historical event – association of the Upper and Lower Egypt by Pharaoh Narmer about 3100 years BC, that is about 5100 years ago. It might be not a casual coincidence.
SNP-mutation V22 could arise both among descendants E1b1b1a of the Upper Egyptian cultures (Fayum, Merimde, Al-Omari, Maade), and among immigrants from Upper Egypt. After association of the Upper and Lower Egypt someone should "bring" «the power of South» to Lower Egypt.

Later, representatives of E1b1b1a3 (V22) were settled from Northern Egypt in different directions, mainly, on the south (among inhabitants of Ethiopia – 25 %), and also on the West (Morocco – 7-8 %), on the east (Palestine – 6,9 %) and on the north (Sicily – 4,6 %).

Probably, in the beginning migration of Egyptians E1b1b1a3 (V22) went in northern direction. We will consider an example. Sicilian haplotypes:
348 14 23 13 11 9 22 10 12 12 22 18
349 14 22 13 10 10 22 10 12 12 22 19
350 14 23 13 11 9 22 10 12 12 22 19
351 14 23 13 12 10 22 10 13 12 22 19
352 14 23 13 11 11 22 11 11 12 22 19
353 14 23 13 11 11 22 11 11 12 22 19
354 14 23 13 11 11 22 11 11 12 22 19

Their base haplotype:

14 23 13 11 10 22 10 12 12 22 19.



There are 16 mutations on 77 markers. It gives 3275±880 years to common ancestor of V22 exemplified with those seven individuals in Sicily. Our paper also lists data that a common ancestor of Ethiopians E1b1b1a3 (V22) lived 2800±1200 years ago, which is within the error margin. These were vague, restless times for Egypt – a decline of the New kingdom and, a so-called, Third transition period. Probable, many people have been compelled to leave the native land and to search for places, more appropriate for their life.



E1b1b1a1 (V12)

Haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (V12) includes two more young subclades: V32 and M224. We analyzed only haplotypes of E-V12*, i.e. not having descending SNP-mutations.
The 65-marker haplotype tree shows that there are four branches in E-V12, all of them derived from the oldest branch on the tree, which 4300±680 years, with the following base haplotype:

13 23 13 11 9 22 10 12 13 22 19

Other three branches have the following haplotypes and time spans to their common ancestors:

14 22 12 11 9 22 10 11 13 22 19
14 22 12 11 9 22 11 11 13 22 19
14 22 12 11 9 22 11 11 12 22 19


All four haplotypes in the second branch (first of the tree above) are identical to each other, hence, this is a very recent branch.

Then a branch of 26 haplotypes, 22 of them are identical, and the other four have one mutation in each. This gives ln(26/22)/0.02 = 8 generations, and 4/26/11/0.0018 = 8 generations to their common ancestor. The first, logarithmic formula is convenient when there are many identical haplotypes in a series, and 0.02 in this case is the average mutation rate for the 11-marker haplotypes. Hence, it does not even consider a number of mutations in haplotypes, only a ratio of the total number of haplotypes and a number of base (identical) haplotypes in the series. The second formula is based on a number of mutations (4 in this case), a number of haplotypes in the series (26), a number of markers in a haplotype (11), and the mutation rate for these particular 11-marker haplotypes (0.0018 per marker per generation). The fact that the both formula gave the same number of generations to a common ancestor means that there was indeed the same common ancestor for all 26 males, and he lived 200±100 years ago.
 

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The last branch of 11 haplotypes contains 21 mutation, which gives 2675±640 years to a common ancestor.



All the four base haplotypes above have seven mutations between each other, which gives 4300 years to their common ancestor, that is the same value as mutations in the oldest branch showed above, that is 4300±680 years.

From eight Egyptian haplotypes of ancient branch, three are from Southern Egypt, and the maximum of E-V12*-concentration in the world is in Southern Egypt too. Possibly, a common ancestor of E1b1b1a1 (V12) was born 4300±680 years ago in Upper Egypt. This time of corresponds to the time of decline of the Ancient kingdom.

This the most ancient branch of E1b1b1a1-V12 (4300±680 years ago) is presented by populations of Africa, Europe and Asia, and the second in time order branch (2675±640 years back) - basically by South Egyptian and, to a lesser degree, by North-and Central Egyptians. It means that migration of South Egyptians to the north of Egypt and to other countries occurred in the days of Ancient, Middle and New Kingdoms. Ways of these migrations are well visible on an ancient branch of tree E-V12*.

To the end of the Third Transition period (to 7 century BC) the prevailing position of the Lower Egypt has been finally established, and the status of Upper Egypt was reduced to a province level. Such situation remains to the present time. Bringing down the status of the Upper Egypt to level of a province and its cultural isolation probably has promoted the termination of massive migrations from the South to the North. It is visible in a prevalence of the South Egyptian haplotypes on young branches.



E1b1b1a2 (V13)

The E1b1b1a2 (V13) tree consists of 261 haplotypes.
Despite a seeming complexity of the tree, practically all haplotypes are derived from one common ancestor. An abundance of flat (non-mutated) branches in the tree points at a relatively recent origin of many derivative lineages in the haplotype selection.
A common ancestor of the whole tree, that is of all 261 haplotypes, had the following base haplotype:

13-24-13-9-10-23-10-12-13-21-19



This haplotype is represented by 44 identical (base) haplotypes on the V13-tree.
It gives ln (261/44)/0.02 = 89 generations, and with correction for back mutations 98 generations, or 2450±250 years to the common ancestor. At the same time, all these 261 haplotypes have 490 mutations from this base haplotype, which results in 2625±270 years to the common ancestor. It is only 7% of difference between the two values, that falls within the provided error margin (95% confidence interval).

Hence, a common ancestor of E1b1b1a2 (V13) subclade has appeared in first half of the 1st millennium BC.

Where and when it has occurred?

All branches on V13-tree are young. Hence, it is difficult to indentify a place of occurrence of E-V13 from these data.

One can see that haplogroup E1b1b1a2 (V13) has extended rather far from the native land of E1b1b1a (M78), which is mainly in Southeast Europe (Albanians, Greeks, Carpatho-Rusins, Macedonians-Slavs) and, to a lesser degree, in the Western Asia (Turks-Cypriotes, Druze, Turks).

Though a fraction of E-V13 in populations of the Western Asia is several-fold less than that in Southeast Europe, it is possible to consider those territories as possible candidates for the ancestral home of common ancestor E-V13 as well. SNP-mutation V13 in descendants of the Egyptians could have arisen in any place on a way of their migrations from Egypt to the Balkans.

The 261-haplotype series and the respective tree of the 11-markers haplotypes E-V13 gave us enough data to calculate the time span to their common ancestor with a sufficient accuracy, however, did not give us enough data to identify the place of their origin. Therefore, we have considered other series of haplotypes of E1b1b1a2 (V13), taken from Battaglia (2008).



There are 108 of 12-marker haplotypes of E-V13 listed in “Y-chromosomal evidence of the cultural diffusion of agriculture in southeast Europe” (Vincenza Battaglia et al., 2008). These haplotypes have a different, 12-marker format, namely DYS 19, 390, 388, 389-1, 389-2, 391, 392, 393, 439, 460, YCAIIa and YCAIIb. Calibration of markers (as it is described above) gave us an average mutation rate of 0.002 mutations per marker per generation that is 0.024 mutations per haplotype per generation (it was obtained considering 56 mutations in 88 of 12-marker haplotypes of McDonalds clan, as described above).

The respective haplotype tree had two distinct branches, with the respective common ancestors who lived 1425±210 years ago, and had the following haplotype

13 24 12 13 30 10 11 13 12 9 21 19

and 2650±390 years ago, with the following haplotype

13 24 12 13 30 10 11 13 11 9 21 19

The only one mutation between them separates the both common ancestors by only about 1125 years, and places THEIR common ancestor to about 2600 years ago. It is apparently the same older common ancestor of 2650±390 years ago. The younger branch of 1425±210 years bp was derived from the older one.

It should be noted that an ancestral haplotype of E-V13, shown earlier, and re-written in the given 12-marker format, looks as

13 X X X X 10 X 13 12 9 21 19

That the same as the above

13 24 12 13 30 10 11 13 12 9 21 19

It is interesting that the calculations on V13- haplotypes taken from Cruciani et el. (2007) gave 2625±270 years to the common ancestor, which is practically identical with the 2650±390 years ago, calculated from a completely different source (Battaglia et al, 2008). It again shows that calibration of mutations rates for these two haplotype series and modes of their considerations (separations into branches and the respective analyses) have been done accurately enough.

Therefore, we see two branches of E-V13, an ancient and more recent one. It is important for definition of a place of occurrence of SNP V13. Seven haplotypes from total of 38 haplotypes in the older branch belong to Greeks-Macedonians (18 % from all haplotypes of the ancient branch). These seven haplotypes in the older branch present 78% of the total haplotypes of Greeks-Macedonians in the whole tree. Such a fraction of the older branch among a certain population group is rather unusual.

Haplotypes of Italians of Calabria with their 57 % in the old branch among the total Calabrians follow up.

Currently, here are two versions concerning a place of origin of V13, that is the Balkans and the Western Asia.



E1b1b1a4 (V65)

The E1b1b1a4 (V65) tree consists of 38 haplotypes, and contain seven branches, with base haplotypes

13 23 13 10 11 21 10 10 13 21 19
13 23 13 9 11 21 10 10 13 21 21
13 23 13 11 11 21 11 10 13 21 19
13 23 13 10 11(10) 21 10 10 13 21 19
13 23 13 10 10 21 10 10 13 21 19
13 22 13 10 10 21(22) 10 11 13 21 19
13 23 13 10 11 21 10 11 13 21 19



The base haplotype of a common ancestor of V65 is

13 23 13 10 11 21 10 10 13 21 19

and the common ancestor lived 2625±400 years ago.

Moroccan haplotypes are presented on all the branches, however, the younger the branch, the lower share of the Moroccans. Ancient branches contain predominantly (80%) of Moroccan haplotypes, with 20% Libyan ones.

It appears that V65 has arisen in first half of the 1st millennium BC in Morocco among natives of Libya or Egypt, having SNP M78*. Two from only thirteen haplotypes of E-M78* found out in Morocco.

It is not known how and when carriers of E-M78* have appeared in Morocco. In the 7th century BC migrations appeared to be in the opposite direction. Berbers and Libyans went to Egypt to serve mercenaries in an army of the Pharaoh. Probably, E-M78* have arrived to Morocco much earlier, in the Neolith, together with ancestors of Berbers E1b1b1b-M81 or have arrived from Egypt to Libya during the Libyan military expeditions in 13-12 centuries BC



E1b1b1a5 (M521)

This subclade is found in only two persons, Athenian Greeks. We do not have their haplotypes (E-M521).

Now we will compare base haplotypes of all E1b1b1a-subclades:

14-23-13-11-10-22-10-12-12-22-19 V22, 5075±600 years to common ncestor
13-24-13-9-10 23-10-12-13-21-19 V13, 2625±270 years
13-23-13-11-9 22-10-12-13-22-19 V12, 4300±680 years
13-23-13-10-11-21-10-10-13-21-19 V65, 2625±400 years
13-25-13-10-11-21-10-12-12-21-19 M78 *, 7500±1725 years

There are 18 mutations in these five base haplotypes that gives 5550±1400 years to common ancestor (presumably M78) from average age of "intermediate" ancestors with the given base haplotypes (4425 years).
Therefore, the distance from our time to a common ancestor E-M78 is at least 9975±1500 years.

At least – because not all E-M78-subclades are included in the presented calculations. Base haplotype of a common ancestor of E1b1b1a-M78 is as folows:

13-23-13-10-10-22-10-12-13-21-19

Битно...

Haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) - Modern Descendants of Ancient Egyptians

Sergey V. Lutak and Anatole A. Klyosov

2009

Conclusion

Approximately 12 thousand years ago tribes, carriers E1b1b1*-M35 have come into Ancient Egypt from Nubia. They spoke in east dialects of Hamito-Semitic protolanguage and belong to Cushitic Big Branch of the Western Racial Trunk.

Possibly, at the same time or earlier, representatives of some other African haplogroups (E1a and E1b1a) have come into Egypt as well. They, possibly, spoke in western dialects of Hamito-Semitic protolanguage.
It is difficult to tell when representatives of A3b2 have come to Egypt. Modern representatives of A3b2 can quite appear descendants of captured Nubians of times of Middle Kingdom or of the Nubians-mercenaries serving in the Egyptian police.

Probably, East Hamites E1b1b1 were more numerous or are more active, than Western Hamites E1a and E1b1a. Anyway, now their descendants (E1b1b1* and E1b1b1a) in Egypt prevail over descendants of others native African haplogroup.

Approximately 10 thousand years ago in Egypt there was significant, though and not noticed then anybody an event: from the father, the carrier E1b1b1, and having M35 in his Y-chromosome, was born the son with additional SNP-mutation M78. Possible, he was born in Libyan "deserts" where then the basic part of the population of Egypt lived, or in the Upper Egypt (soon after an outcome from Nubia). Descendants of this man with SNP-mutation ?78 began to prevail in due course on number over other inhabitants of Egypt.

Millenniums, generations and epoch passed. Representatives of haplogroup E1b1b1a have extended on all territory of Egypt where have created the most ancient agricultures, have invented one of the most ancient writings, have based one of the most ancient and most durable of the states on the Earth – Ancient Egypt.
Ancient Egyptians the first began to consider all people (except slaves), irrespective of a floor and the estate, equal before the law, the first have learnt to do bread of a yeast dough, have cultivated bees and have tamed a cat, have invented the first synthetic pigment and glass, have defined exact duration of year and have created a modern calendar, did difficult surgical operations with anaesthesia use.

Descendants of Bible Mizraim have brought the huge contribution in world history, art, science and religion. Egypt is the native land of a Christian Monasticism.

Since an epoch of the Ancient Kingdom or, probably, earlier, representatives of E1b1b1a (M78) began to extend from Egypt to another countries. Thanks to researches of DNA-genealogy we know now, that brothers Wrights– founders of the first-ever plane capable to operated flight, the Portuguese navigator and the researcher of the Western Africa João Afonso de Aveiro, vice-president of the United States John Caldwell Calhoun and many other outstanding people were descendants of ancient Egyptians. The heritage of Egypt has not gone to waste.

In the beginning of our paper we wrote, that in DNA-genealogy it is accepted to name the ancestor of all modern (survived) man's lines «Y-chromosome Adam».

According to the Bible the forefather of the people of Northeast Africa was Mizraim, the son of Ham and the grandson of Noah.
It will not be unusual that, leaning against the presented material,
we name the ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b1a (M78) «Y-Chromosome Mizraim».
 
A

anaveno

Гостин
Piggassovskiiiiiii..
ne se SHQIPTARI,A?

SE SRAMIS OD TVOJOT NAROD?:kesa:

NE SE NI ILIRI.

KAVKAZCI-KURDI I ARAPI.

a ke ti kazam i za "ilirite" deka se od KAVKAZ-KURDISTAN....

i site vasi pleminja..koi ne se od Arabija-Jemen....
li Pasa a?:pos2:
The surname borne by the family is Hissas ; and he affirmed that he was descended from Issa, or Jesus, the head of an ancient Natolian race, who passed from Asia Minor into Epirus, with the hordes of that Bajazet whose rapid movements and destructive progress gained for him the appellation Ilderim or lightning.:kesa:
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Piggassovskiiiiiii..
ne se SHQIPTARI,A?

SE SRAMIS OD TVOJOT NAROD?

NE SE NI ILIRI.

KAVKAZCI-KURDI I ARAPI.

a ke ti kazam i za "ilirite" deka se od KAVKAZ-KURDISTAN....

i site vasi pleminja..koi ne se od Arabija-Jemen....
Абе дилбер, русите еве не викаат така, американците не, германците не, чесите не, италијанците не!?

Само вие и сервилните, прво сервилните па после вие.

И вие по умот на мувата... Па оп на гомно...

Оти нема хаплогрупа... Таква... сфашташ?

Не те бидуе, не те бидуе...

Џаба,... половично задоволство...

Се задоволуваш со трошки...
 
A

anaveno

Гостин
Piggassovskiiiii......
sto se sramis?
sto se pikas togas vo Shqip-Arnaut ako se sramis?
sakas uste sliki,pa neka te spasuva bird?

sto vikas za arabskata vrska?

kazi prikaznata,ajde.....

koj te donese tebe od Jemen?

Bajazit za raka?
 

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