Илири = Словени

[PIRRO]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]LIBURNIANS = ILLYRIANS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Corcyra [Korfu], before the Greeks took possession of it, was peopled by them. (Strab. vi. p. 269.) So was Issa and the neighbouring[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]islands. (Schol. ad Apollon. iv. 564.). They were also considerably extended to the N., for Noricum, it is evident, had been previously[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]inhabited by Liburnian tribes; for the Vindelicians were Liburnians (Serv. ad Viry. Aen. i. 243), and Strabo (iv. p. 206) makes a distinction[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]between them and the Breuni and Genauni, whom he calls Illyrians. The words of Virgil, too, seem distinctly to term the Veneti Liburnians,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]for the innermost realm of the Liburnians must have been the goal at which Antenor is said to have arrived.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]LIBURNIANS were not [pure] ILLYRIANS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: By such accounts the Liburnians together with Veneti expelled from North Italy (or subjugated) the native tribes, the Euganei.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]At Ancona begins the coast of that part of Gaul known as Gallia Togata [North Italy, Po Bassin]. The Siculi [Epiro-Macedonians, also[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Pelasgians] and the Liburni possessed the greater part of this district [since -1200, as the presence of Illyrians and Epirotes is[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]posterior to the Trojan War], and more particularly the territories of Palma, of Praetutia, and of Adria. These were expelled by the Umbri [Italics,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]as Urnfield invader, -1000], these again by the Etrurians [around -600, the colonists will be known as Raethians], and these in their turn by the Gauls [by -400, Celtics that will be the dominant ethnic element in the Po Basin at the arrival of the Romans]. (Pliny).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Ptolomey in the II Century: Illyrian tribe in Albania named "Albanians".[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Aprиs les invasions gothiques, puis l’arrivјe des Slaves du Sud, se dјveloppe, en Albanie septentrionale notamment, la civilisation[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]dite de Koman. Celle-ci est surtout remarquable par les bijoux, fibules, agrafes, qui tјmoignent de la permanence d’une[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]technique du mјtal et d’un art de la dјcoration apparentјs aux productions illyriennes antјrieures[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: So Illyrian as say many scholars have the unique descendant left in Albanian.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Many Illyrian names have been preserved in Albanian language: Didi=Dede, Lalus=Lala, Dassios=Dash, Bardhyllis=Bardhan, Bardhosh, etc.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Even such names could be explained by Albanian etymology: Bardhyllis=bardhл+yllis=white star, or Bardibalus=bardi+balus=white forehead.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]The Illyrian origins of Albanian can now be proven only with the use of lexical similarities of modern Albanian words with what was found[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]of the Illyrian glossary, some Illyrian - Albanian correspondences: buris / burrл "man"; datan / datл "place"; drenis / dreni "deer";[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]pupa / pupл "hill"; rera / lera "stones".[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Modern Albanians still use the vigesimal numeric system of ancient Illyrians.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Arutiunov: the only remnant of Illyrian is Albanian.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Strabo, Geography: The [Thracian] Bessi live in huts and lead a wretched life; and their country borders on Mount Rhodope, on the[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]country of the Paeonians, and on that of two Illyrian peoples-the Autariatae, and the Dardanians.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]DARDANIANS (around modern Kosovo) = ILLYRIANS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]According to HOLLIS, the Illyrian languages include the Messapian and Venetic language.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Strabo: "And further, the Iapodes (we now come to this mixed tribe of Illyrii and Celti) dwell round about these regions [west Slovenia];[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and Mount Ocra is near these people. The Iapodes, then, although formerly they were well supplied with strong men and held as their[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]homeland both sides of the mountain and by their business of piracy held sway over these regions, have been vanquished and[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]completely outdone by Augustus Caesar. Their cities are: Metulum, Arupini, Monetium, and Vendo. After the Iapodes comes Segestica,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]a city in the plain, past which flows the River Saьs [Sava], which empties into the Ister."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Les Alpes s'јtendent jusqu'au pays des Iapodes, nation tout а la fois celtique et illyrienne. [Strabo, Book VII, 31][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Les Iapodes sont јtablis prиs de l'Albie, trиs haute montagne qui se trouve а l'extrјmitј des Alpes, et vont d'un cфtј jusqu'aux Pannonies[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]et а Pister, de l'autre jusqu'а l'Adrias. ils sont tatouјs tout comme les autres Illyries et les Thraces. [Strabo, Book VII, 33][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IAPODES = ILLYRIAN TRIBE (but Celtized)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Appian, The Foreign Wars: They are called Pжones [Paeones] by the Greeks, but Pannonians by the Romans.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Paeones: They appear neither as Macedonians, or Illyrians, but professed to be descended from the Teucri of Troy.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Next followed the Paeonians, who occupied both banks of the Strymon, from its source down to the lake near its mouth, but were pushed[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]away from the coast towards the interior. (Strabo).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]“But who,” he [Darius] answered, “are the Paeonians, and where do they dwell, and with what intent have you come to Sardis?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1][in Lydia]” They told him, that they had come to be his men, that the towns of Paeonia lay on the Strymon, a river not far from the[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Hellespont, and that they were colonists from the Teucrians of Troy. (Herodotus).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Appian, The Foreign Wars: "Among the many myths prevailing among many peoples this seems to me the most plausible.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Illyrius had six sons, Encheleus, Autarieus, Dardanus, Maedus, Taulas, and Perrhaebus, also daughters, Partho, Daortho, Dassaro,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and others, from whom sprang the Taulantii, the Perrhaebi, the Enchelees, the Autarienses, the Dardani, the Partheni, the Dassaretii,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and the Darsii. Autarieus had a son Pannonius, or Paeon, and the latter had sons, Scordiscus and Triballus, from whom nations[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]bearing similar names were derived. But I will leave these matters to the archaeologists."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]ILLYRIANS = DARDANIANS = PAEONES/PANNONIANS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Francisco Villar: The Paeonian was IE; per example in its sonority of aspired sonors (*bh, *dh, etc. > /b/, /d/, etc.),[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and in names as Agrianes, Paeonian tribe (from *agro- ‘field’, as the Latin ager) or in Doberos, Paeonian city (from *dheubh- ‘deep’,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]as the Greek and Lithuanian dubus).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Appian, The Foreign Wars: "These peoples [Illyrian tribes], and also the Pannonians, the Rhaetians, the Noricans, the Mysians[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]of Europe, and the other neighboring tribes who inhabited the right bank of the Danube, the Romans distinguished from one another[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]just as the various Greek peoples are distinguished from each other, and they call each by its own name, but they consider the whole[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]of Illyria as embraced under a common designation."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: Such fact can be explained as that once such Great Illyria was ethnically homogeneus: it is attested that the Rhaetians crossed[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]the Alps in classical sources, also we know that the Norics were Celtics that sprang with the Hallstadt culture, and the Mysians could[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]have suffered a process of Thracization.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]The earliest writer who has left any account of the peoples inhabiting the Adriatic coast is Scylax; according to whom the Illyrians,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]properly so called (for the Liburnians and Istrians beyond them are excluded), occupy the sea-coast from Liburnia to the Chaonians of[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Epirus. The Bulini were the northernmost of these tribes, and the Amantini the southernmost. Herodotus (i. 196) includes under the name,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]the Heneti or Veneti, who lived at the head of the gulf; in another passage (iv. 49) he places the Illyrians on the tributary streams of the[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Morava river [Bosnia].[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]MAP: Click here to open a new window displaying a linguistic map of the Balkans in the Iron Age.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Croatia: Celts there since -400 with La Tиne Culture; cremation funerals, and being substrat for the actual Croat language.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]NOTE: The possible Illyrian branch of the Venets is taken into consideration in Italy's section. Also the Messapic tribes.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[PIRRO]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]THRACIAN GROUPS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Cernavoda III in North Bulgaria (since -3000) is the first bronze culture in the area; practices inhumation.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]-2100 Ochre Grave Culture in South Ukraine and South Russia, till the Caucasus.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Thraco-Illyro-Phrygians, settled on Balkan peninsula. It took place in the XXIIIth or the XXIIth century BC. Scientists believe[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]it was the time of linguistic unity of all Balkan peoples. Later they divided into two groups: Thraco-Illyrian and Thraco-Phrygian,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]the first spread to all Balkan mountains, Illyria, Pannonia, Dacia and parts of Italy, the second existed in South-East Balkans[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and partly in Asia Minor. Modern Albanian means everything that left after the first group, whether it is the direct successor of[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Illyrian language or just related to it. Modern Armenian is NOT the descendant of Phrygian but is really its close relative.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]-2000/-1200 Proto-Thracians in east Balkans, including Romania. The origins of the Thracians are ambiguous,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]but has them coming into Balkans from Hungary and E Galicia. Possible connection with Ochre Grave culture.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]-1750/-1650 [Thracian] Mysians in the lower Danube; after they expand their area: north Serbia, Bulgaria, Moldova, etc.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]At the turn of the second millennium BC (around -1900), the Thracian tribes of Indo-European origin settled alongside the population[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]that had already lived in the Carpathian-Balkan region.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Towards the end of the Early Bronze I, the Pit-Grave Culture penetrated in the Balkans from the Northwest Black Sea. It occupied[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]different microregions but Northeast Bulagria was one of the secondary areas of occupation of the PGC. It is characterized by tumulus[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]inhumation graves in which there are traces of initial social stratification. As in the Northern Black Sea, typical were inhumations in[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]crouched position on their back.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]By -2200 Stock-breeding cultures in Middle and Lower Danube from Pit Grave culture: Domestic horse is presented, high probability[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]of genetic relations with Pit Grave and Corded Ware cultures.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]"Balkan" [linguistic] branch descend from Catacomb Grave culture [which was akin to the Pit Grave Culture].[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Ezerovo in Bulgarian coasts, first bronze there and with corded ware.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Cotofeni Culture in NW Bulgaria appears with Middle Bronze Age (since -2000); use of tumuli and of incineration.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Encrusted Pottery Ware in the NW of Bulgaria appears in the Middle Bronze (-2000 to -1600); they used cremation urns.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Ezero Culture in NE Thrace (since -3250), with tumuli. Also, in contrast to the other Southern Balkan cultures, in the Ezero culture there are[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]micro-region of active integration of the Ezero population or of co-existence with the PGC which penetrated from Northeastern Bulgaria to[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]the south. For the time being, the only mode of burial documented is inhumation. The typical position seems to be crouched inhumations[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]to the left or to the right, but inhumations in crouched position on back have also occurred.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]In Northeast Bulgaria it was developed the Koslogeni culture, for the first time defined and typologically elaborated on the based of[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]materials from Romania. Flat cemeteries and single graves indicate typical was inhumation in crouched position aside, as in Thrace where[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]some late tumulus grave may belong to Late Bronze Age (since -1600).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]"The formation of Thracian ethno-cultural common has been referred by the majority of researchers to the beginning of the early Iron Age.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]People of the previous period, especially the carriers of the Noa and the Koslogeni cultures, closely connected with tribes of the northern[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Black Sea land, are considered by Romanian scholars as the including in the Thracian common but they are yet not Thracians.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1][Proto-Thracians then ?]. Sharp change of cultures in 11 - 12-th centuries B.C. which is observed by researchers in the Karpatian-Danube[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]area is convincing argument for such conclusion, testifying about the occurrence of the new population here. Just this arrival population[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]is considered as the basic nucleus of northern Thracians which assimilated local tribes [with gave rise to the differences betweem[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Thracians and Getians ?]" (Melyukova).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]In the former half of the first millennium BC, in the Carpathian-Danube-Pontic area - which was the northern part of the large surface[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]inhabited by the Thracian tribes - a northern Thracian group became clearly individualized. It consisted of a mosaic of Getae and Dacian tribes.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Il est probable que les porteurs de la Culture Foltesti soient les ancиtres des grecs et des phrygiens. Dans les Balkans, les Foltesti[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]se mиleront aux porteurs des tombes а charpentes pour former le groupe des Daces / Gиtes de Roumanie, des Illyriens d'Albanie,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]des Thraces de Bulgarie.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]In Upper Thrace the material culture have peculiarities, but the different elements have affinity to the cultures from the Black Sea coast,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]European Turkey, the Northern Aegean and Southwestern Bulgaria, as well as from the Rhodopes, documented for the time being from[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Late Bronze Age [-1600].[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: the Thracians ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]The pottery of Cernavoda in the Danube/Dobrogea area, Cotofeni in western Romania, and Ezero in the south, exhibit similarities,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]suggesting a wide ranging communication network. This may have extended beyond Hungary, via Bulgaria and northern Greece,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]to the Aegean Sea, judging by stylistic similarities of handled jugs and cups.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA= Thracians ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Anonyme ou Scymnos de Chios: Tout а cфtј des јnјtes [Venetoi] sont les Thraces appelјs Istres Puis, c'est l'Eridan, qui porte l'ambre,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]cette merveille; ce sont, dit-on, des larmes pјtrifiјes, gouttes transparentes que distillent des peupliers.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]ISTRIANS = THRACIANS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]ISTRIANS = LIBURNIANS (not certainity, but occupied the same region)... so:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]THRACIANS = ILLYRIANS ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Strabo, a famous geographer and historian in the age of emperor Augustus, informs that "the Dacians have the same language as the Getae".[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Basically, it was the same people, the only real difference between the Dacians and the Getae was just the area they inhabited.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Moesians = Thracians = Dacians = Getas[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Thracian and Dacian are very close languages, but also they have many differences.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Herodotus (425 BC) would write: "The Thracian people is the most numerous one of the world; the Thracians have several[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]names, according to their specific regions, but their habits are more or less the same."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Now the Thracian race is the most numerous, except the Indians, in all the world: and if it should come to be[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]ruled over by one man, or to agree together in one, it would be irresistible in fight and the strongest by far of all[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]nations, in my opinion. Since however this is impossible for them and cannot ever come to pass among them,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]they are in fact weak for that reason. They have many names, belonging to their various tribes in different[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]places; but they all follow customs which are nearly the same in all respects, except the Getai and Trausians and[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]those who dwell above the Crestonians. (Herodotus).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: so determination that Getians were a tribe of the Thracians.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]"Now, the Greeks used to suppose that Getae were Thracians [so easy to confuse might have a reason]; and the Getae lived[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]on either side of the Ister, as did also the Mysi (Mysoi), these also being Thracians and identical with the people who are now called[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Moesi; from these Mysi sprang also the Mysi who now live between the Lydians and the Phrygians and the Trojans" (Strabo III).[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[anaveno]

Umetnikot napisal: Nie sme neshto naj naj... Istorijata [nas] ne poznava kako naj naj, centar na civilizacija i takvi mi ti raboti... tantara pantara........
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


he..he..

More thinjur, ko da si padnat od Mars.

Samo nesto si bashkangjis, bashkangjit.

Toa e zatoa sto si bashkatdhetar..

Sto se zanesuvas deka si bashkautor..:pos2:

 

[fanatic]

Ti go citash toa shto tebe ti odgovara.
Prelistaj postovi na PIRRO, prelistaj drugi postovi moi, poveketo na angliski jazik, gledam go znaesh angliskiot.

E, arno ako nekoj kaze deka Albancite se naslednici na Ilirskata loza, ili potomci nivni, za vas, Novite Makedonci, toa ne e merodavno, iako od istite avtori vadite dela koi istite avtori kazuvaat deka Makedoncite se bash off spring na onie Antickite.
Aleksandar Stipcevic, hrvatski arheolog i istoricar, na nekolku navrati si kazal, duri i samiot so dobricka voljicka, se "proglasil" za Arber i kako potencijalen potomok na Ilirite...
Nego nema vrska, vie ste vo pravo, i sve shto e antiteza na vasheto, ne e vistinito.

Pa sega ekonomsko-politickite tenzicni sostojbi ke sozdavaat i enciklopedii so omnipotenten romantizam, koj ne moze da se pronajde duri ni vo delata na Shekspir i drugite golemi romanticari

Abe i Kaplan Resuli vie nego citate pa nema veze, vie ste demek Iliri i demek vo pravo ste, i se sto e protiv vas ne e vistinito.

 

[fanatic]

OVOJ PIRRO JA IZNAPISHA CELATA ISTORIJA NA SVETOT:pos2:

 

[Misirkov]

Ti go citash toa shto tebe ti odgovara. Prelistaj postovi na PIRRO, prelistaj drugi postovi moi, poveketo na angliski jazik, gledam go znaesh angliskiot.

E, arno ako nekoj kaze deka Albancite se naslednici na Ilirskata loza, ili potomci nivni, za vas, Novite Makedonci, toa ne e merodavno, iako od istite avtori vadite dela koi istite avtori kazuvaat deka Makedoncite se bash off spring na onie Antickite.

Aleksandar Stipcevic, hrvatski arheolog i istoricar, na nekolku navrati si kazal, duri i samiot so dobricka voljicka, se "proglasil" za Arber i kako potencijalen potomok na Ilirite...

Nego nema vrska, vie ste vo pravo, i sve shto e antiteza na vasheto, ne e vistinito.

Picasso, извини, но не си сериозен соговорник.

И ти и rymz чувте од мене за Птоломеј на другата тема за потеклото на Албанците. Тоа е единственото нешто за кое се држите. Ни Птоломеј не никаков аргумент, но друго пак нема.

Поентата зошто го споменав Птоломеј е наводното негово споменување на Албанополис во неговата "Географија", а всушност според координатите кои ги навел се работи за градот Термидава. Aлбанополис е во Азарбејџан. Затоа ти дадов линк погоре да видиш, за да ти текне, за да не морам да цртам.

Едноставно нема никакви докази за да тврдите дека сте потомци на Илирите.


И целиот аргумент дека носите имиња како Илир или Теута на пример, па сходно сте Илири, е комичен. Еве зошто:

1. Сите имиња се изведени од "грчко-римска" транскрипција и нема доказ дека тие постоеле во тој облик. На пример, никој не може да гарантира дека Bardyl не е Бранe. Па илирски имиња се и Бато, Боро, Сокол, итн.


2. Илирските имиња (Теута, Аргон, Илир, итн.) прв пат во историјата почнувате да ги употребувате дури во 19. век, откако Австро-унгарија ја популаризира илирско-албанската теза за вашето потекло за политички цели.


3. Се до крајот на 19. век, Австроунгарија ги нарекува Илири претежно Србите. Австроунгарија ја нарекувала Србија "илирска нација", нивните претставништва - "илирски канцаларии", српските yчилишта - "илирски училишта", српската војска - "илирски одреди", итн.

Хрватите и Словенците исто така се нарекуваат себе си Илири, и прават Илирско движење во кое подоцна учевствуваат и други народи.

Значи тоа илирско име, факт е, се однесува на Словените од Балканот долг низ векови! Затоа и го постирав речникот од Оксфорд.
Да не збориме пак за топонимите. ...

 

[Misirkov]

Спиро: што си земал да постираш километарски текстови бре?!

Нели те опоменав?

Друг пат, направи сиже што е аргументот, употрерби цитат ако сакаш, и остави линк.

 

[PIRRO]

Ti go citash toa shto tebe ti odgovara.
Prelistaj postovi na PIRRO, prelistaj drugi postovi moi, poveketo na angliski jazik, gledam go znaesh angliskiot.

E, arno ako nekoj kaze deka Albancite se naslednici na Ilirskata loza, ili potomci nivni, za vas, Novite Makedonci, toa ne e merodavno, iako od istite avtori vadite dela koi istite avtori kazuvaat deka Makedoncite se bash off spring na onie Antickite.
Aleksandar Stipcevic, hrvatski arheolog i istoricar, na nekolku navrati si kazal, duri i samiot so dobricka voljicka, se "proglasil" za Arber i kako potencijalen potomok na Ilirite...
Nego nema vrska, vie ste vo pravo, i sve shto e antiteza na vasheto, ne e vistinito.

Pa sega ekonomsko-politickite tenzicni sostojbi ke sozdavaat i enciklopedii so omnipotenten romantizam, koj ne moze da se pronajde duri ni vo delata na Shekspir i drugite golemi romanticari

Сигурно дека знае англиски... сепак ај да им преведеме на другите кои не знаат дел од текстот на англиски...
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Thraco-Illyro-Phrygians, settled on Balkan peninsula. It took place in the XXIIIth or the XXIIth century BC. Scientists believe[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]it was the time of linguistic unity of all Balkan peoples. Later they divided into two groups: Thraco-Illyrian and Thraco-Phrygian,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]the first spread to all Balkan mountains, Illyria, Pannonia, Dacia and parts of Italy, the second existed in South-East Balkans[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]and partly in Asia Minor. Modern Albanian means everything that left after the first group, whether it is the direct successor of[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Illyrian language or just related to it.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Траките-Илирите-Бригите населени на Балканскиот полуостров во 23-22 век пред новата ера. Научниците веруваат тоа било време на јазично единство на балканските народи. Подоцна се поделиле во две групи - Тракиско-Илирско и Тракиско-Бригиско, првото проширено на балканските планини,Илириа,Панониа,Дациа и делови на Италија, второто постоело во југо-источен Балкан и делумно во Мала Азија. Модерниот албански јазик значи се што останало од првата група без разлика дали е директен наследник на илирскиот јазик или сличен на тој јазик.

Претпоставувам знае малку и франсцуски јазик ...
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]Après les invasions gothiques, puis l’arrivée des Slaves du Sud, se développe, en Albanie septentrionale notamment, la civilisation[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]dite de Koman. Celle-ci est surtout remarquable par les bijoux, fibules, agrafes, qui témoignent de la permanence d’une[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]technique du métal et d’un art de la décoration apparentés aux productions illyriennes antérieures[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=-1]IDEA: So Illyrian as say many scholars have the unique descendant left in Albanian.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Јас само ова го разбирам, по готските инвазии, по доселувањето на словените во Албанија се развила Коман цивилизацијата... За жал толку од мојот француски...

Значи Илирите како што велат повеќето научници ги имаат оставено уникатните наследници, Албанците...

 

[PIRRO]

Спиро: што си земал да постираш километарски текстови бре?!

Нели те опоменав?

Друг пат, направи сиже што е аргументот, употрерби цитат ако сакаш, и остави линк.

Така некој нема да се потруди да прочита нешто, изворно ко што кажа бидејќи се си знае... инаку ова е линкот ...
http://www.lhhpaleo.religionstatistics.net/LHH balkan ellas.html

Се спомнуваат Бригите кои мигрирале во Ерменија и Азербејџан... нивниот јазик е сличен со палео-балканскиот јазик... Грбот на Ерменија е Лав и Орел...
Затоа нека не се занесува некој дека ги открил сличностите на албанците со Удите од Азебејџан и да тврди дека албанците мигрирале од Азербејџан тука на балканот... Македонските бриги мигрирале во Азербејџан,Ерменија... барем ти го знаеш тоа...
Ајде поздрав, верувам има доста да учи некој за древните народи на балканот и древниот јазик...

 

[Misirkov]

Се спомнуваат Бригите кои мигрирале во Ерменија и Азербејџан... нивниот јазик е сличен со палео-балканскиот јазик... Грбот на Ерменија е Лав и Орел...

Затоа нека не се занесува некој дека ги открил сличностите на албанците со Удите од Азебејџан и да тврди дека албанците мигрирале од Азербејџан тука на балканот... Македонските бриги мигрирале во Азербејџан,Ерменија... барем ти го знаеш тоа...
Ајде поздрав, верувам има доста да учи некој за древните народи на балканот и древниот јазик...

Дали сега тврдиш дека Албанците се потомци на Бригите (кои пак се потомци на античките Македонци)?!?

Точно, дел од Бригите мигрирал, пред се во Мала Азија каде што создале свое царство - Фригија. Но тоа не ти го решава проблемот дека нема ниту еден доказ за поврзаност меѓу Албанците и Илирите.

Ова со Бригите е нов момент. :uvo:

 

[feniks_m]

Илирската идеја е идеја за обединување на словените во една држава, и тоа се случува со почетокот на новиот век, со експанзија во 16-17 век.

Илирската идеја кај Албанците е стара да не речам еден век, ај малку повеќе, хихи! Но, тоа не е битно, нели браќа!!!

 

[PIRRO]

Дали сега тврдиш дека потомци на Бригите (кои пак се потомци на античките Македонци)?!?

Точно, дел од Бригите мигрирал, пред се во Мала Азија каде што создале свое царство - Фригија. Но тоа не ти го решава проблемот дека нема ниту еден доказ за поврзаност меѓу Албанците и Илирите.

Ова со Бригите е нов момент. :uvo:

Постираниот текст од светски научници кој сметаат дека албанскиот јазик е наследник на древниот јазик на илирите,траките,македонците ?...

Ние,албанците немаме проблем дали сме наследници на илирите... Македонците имаат проблем, свесни дека се наследници на македонците, илирите, траките, бригите ама ви ги помешува работите словенскиот јазик...
Затоа без навреда, глупаво е да се тврди дека словените се илири и македонци... Дека вие сте македонци,илири или наследници на кој било древен балкански народ тоа не е спорно (освен од страна на грците) , спорно е единствено словенскиот јазик за кој тврдите дека е древен јазик на балканските народи... Вие имате проблем не ние ...

Инаку кажи ми еден доказ каков сакаш да ти постирам дека албанците се наследници на илирите јас ќе ти постирам дузина... Истражувања од светски научници, зборови илиро-албански, имиња илиро-албански, иако не верувам дека те интересираат бидејќи имате чип во глава полн со "докази" кој не прима податоци од никој друг затоа што веќе ви го наполниле српските квази научници со податоци ...

 

[rymz]

2. Илирските имиња (Теута, Аргон, Илир, итн.) прв пат во историјата почнувате да ги употребувате дури во 19. век, откако Австро-унгарија ја популаризира илирско-албанската теза за вашето потекло за политички цели.


3. Се до крајот на 19. век, Австроунгарија ги нарекува Илири претежно Србите. Австроунгарија ја нарекувала Србија "илирска нација", нивните претставништва - "илирски канцаларии", српските yчилишта - "илирски училишта", српската војска - "илирски одреди", итн.

Хрватите и Словенците исто така се нарекуваат себе си Илири, и прават Илирско движење во кое подоцна учевствуваат и други народи.

Значи тоа илирско име, факт е, се однесува на Словените од Балканот долг низ векови! Затоа и го постирав речникот од Оксфорд.
Да не збориме пак за топонимите. ...

Heu majkata...19 vek a?

16ti vek, Napoli. Italija. Ilirski Koledz. Albanski jazik. Albanski pisateli. Albansko shkolo.

Potenciram, Ilirski koledz, kade shto ucat na albanski jazik. Od toj koledz poteknuvaat albanski pisateli, albanski episkopi.

Srbite tek posle 3 veka stanuvaat iliri a?? Ako be, neka bidat slovenite iliri. Posle albancite bile falsifikatori, demek Austrohungarcite taka gi naucile

Ushte ednash..


Hristijanska doktrina
Kopijava e od Gjon Kazazi, originalniot tekst bil na Lek Matrënga

Hristovo Uchenie
Lek Matrënga

Latino-Epirotski rechnik
Frang Bardi

Cheta na Prorocite
Pjetr Bogdani.


Dela, proizlezeni od Ilirskiot Koledz. Od Albanski pisateli. Kade se togash Srbite kako iliri? Zasto ne uchele vo Ilirski Koledz??


Specijalno za Anaveno, vistinskata razlika za Gegite i Toskite

L' Albanese Parlato - dialetto ghego
Angelo Leotti, 1916



Namerno ti zgolemiv, za da vidish, iako znam deka znaes, ama uporno se praish na tosho

 

[Mr.M[][]N]

Videte go ova, i ne e potrebno da komentirate......

Mathieu Aref. Albanie ou l'incroyable odyssјe d'un peuple prјhellјnique (2003)

" ALBANIA, nevorojatnata odiseja na eden praHELENSKI narod"

Mathieu Aref in his two books calls into question the foundations of modern linguistics, and especially the history archaic and prјhellјnique of Greece. His numerous studies and research are supported by a compelling case enriched solid rјfјrences.Pour him the real Greece (in the strict sense) has not existed before the eighth s BC. The Balkans, the Aegean and Asia Minor were inhabited before the arrival of the Greeks in the eighth s, Pelasges (Cariens, Lyciens, Troyens, Phrygians, Lydiens, Thracians, Illyrians, etc.) whose Albanian are the only descendants today. It demonstrates through his studies, historical, archaeological, anthropological and ethnolingistiques and various correlations language that tackles in his first book (Paris 2003). Two books revolutionary, exciting, informative and leaving the beaten path.
________________________________________________________________

Videte go i ova

Direktno od http://www.mlahanas.de

Whether the Pelasgian language was pre-Indo-European or not, and the extent to which it was a single language or not, are modern disputes that are colored by contemporary nationalist issues. Among the nations for whom Pelasgian descent has been claimed are Albanians, and Romanians. There is also a theory suggesting that the Philistines or Peleset of the ancient Levant were connected with the Pelasgians. Scholars have since come to use the term "Pelasgian", somewhat indiscriminately, to indicate all the autochthonous inhabitants of the Aegean lands before the arrival of the Greeks; a number of other recent theories as to their nature are also discussed below.


The French author Zacharie Mayani (1899 – ) put forth a thesis that the Etruscan language had links to the Albanian language. This thesis places the Albanian language outside the group of Indo-European languages sharing one branch with Etruscans as well as ancient Greek. Nermin Vlora Falaschi published a translation of the Lemnos stele on this basis, with the help of Arvanite Albanian. The references below by Falaschi, Catapano, Marchiano, Mathieu Aref, Faverial, D'Angely, Kolias, and Cabej support this point of view.


Decki, mislam deka e dovolno, tuka nigde ne se spomenuvaat SllavoMakedoncite, a kamo li Antickite Makedonci, koi kako sto pisuvaat stranskite avtori, tie se samo heleni.........

A be vi rekov, imame najseksi artefakt, ALBANSKIOT JAZIK-Ziva Legenda

Ajde kazete kaj se slovenite tuka?! Kaj se sllavo-ilirite....Drugari, mislam deka docnat 1 milenium....


Ej Rymz, bravo za Bardhi i Bogdani.....mislam deka dovolno e samo da si go otvorat PDF-ot i da vidat na kakov jazik se pisuva....

 

[Докторот]

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