Што знаеме за Ѓoрѓија Кастриот од Кроја?

Solid

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Пак, од Велес нагоре, албанска боја гледам....значи џабе муабетот дека албанците биле населени во Македонија од Тито :), а ко второ, шо убаво се гледа дека Косово "није" Српско:)...

со мапиве преку таквото СИТЕ сте ми дошле, сам себе го убијал....расизмус.
А кај Солун македонска боја.:wink:
 
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А кај Солун македонска боја.:wink:
Си кажав ја, за Солун, Грчка и Тунгузија, малион не ми чуе. Поентата, една единствена е да не ми се качувате на шпицо со муабети дека Тито ги донел албанците во Македонија. Тие тука си биле.

Не сакам да има делба, делбата сами си ја направивме.

Друга поента е, што со тоа како ти што викаш, солун е македонија, а македонија според таа мапа, е пола албанско, ондак, одговори ми , дали ја сметаш таа мапа за веродостојна. Ако да, преку таквото со теории на вештачко населување на македонија од Тито и Б.Ц.

Ако не, ондак џабе ги постирате.

Тоа ми е муабетот. Солун ако сака и на Етиопците нека е, воопшто не ми беше тоа поентата.
 

Bratot

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Abe tatarce sirace edno... aj ne poti muda


ZA TATAROGLAVI 1


ZA TATAROGLAVI 2


I mnogu mudo mrsenje kaj Bozidar, a ovde ke bacite gjonot.


A gledam deka gi snabduvate shqipetarive so "promotiven" materijal, sto i ne e losa taktika, ama problemot e sto ni toa ne vi pomaga.

Izmislete nekoj nov TATARSKI priod.
 
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na mapata ti pisuva deka si sloven, go znaeme toa veke!
 

Bratot

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Quark

brr,brr...zbrc
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Aha, e pa cim taka okolu 200 milioni luge mozat da go smetat Aleksandar za niven. Taka?
 

Solid

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Си кажав ја, за Солун, Грчка и Тунгузија, малион не ми чуе. Поентата, една единствена е да не ми се качувате на шпицо со муабети дека Тито ги донел албанците во Македонија. Тие тука си биле.
Имало Албанци пред Тито во МК.Од 1750 г. до денес....и тие се староседелци.:toe:
По земјотресот во СК дојдоа многу косовари во МК,ама за тоа во некоја друга тема...
 

Solid

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Супермен е македонец, ама тоа е друга приказна (ете иста реченица ко твојата и јас напишав, ГЛУПА)
Еј знам дека ме сакаш,ама јас не сум по тие работи...извини.
 

Bratot

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325654-ta varijanta za potekloto na novite makedonci, znaci i belorusniot od minsk, i rusinot od kamchatka blizu do japonija imat poteklo od anticnite makedonci????? imas podobra fantazija i od rezhiserot na Lord of the rings. allall da ti e
Абе шќиптрискава доктрина лудости.

Ти имаш ли предвид колкава територија зазема Русија во целост и колку етноси и раси живеат во неа?

Русија не е купче “Словени“

Ти дадов сосема издржан извор , воопшто нема допирна точка со политика, чисто научен аспект.
Башка илустрирано, за да можат и кебап мајсторите да разберат.

Нема сајансфикшин туку логичко размислување базирано на факти:

Северно од Дунав во 12.000 пред наша ера биле во АЈС ЕЈЏ. Немало живот.

Миграцијата била од Балканот кон Север



The three groups of humans had taken refuge for so long that their DNA had naturally picked up mutations, and consequently can be defined into different haplogroups.
As they spread from these refuges, Haplogroups R1b, I and R1a propagated across Europe.

These three major haplogroups account for approx 80% of Europe's present-day population.
The frequency of Haplogroup R1a ranges from 63.39% by the Sorbs, 56.4% in Poland and 54% in Ukraine, to 15.2% in Macedonia,

- Haplogroup I “ is common across central Europe and up into Scandinavia.

Значи според гените секој народ соодветно според процентите може да се поврзува со пра народите или античките Македонци.

80-85% Македонскиот генетички материјал е ОВДЕШЕН, прастар.

Како и да свртиш поголемиот дел од “Словенските“ народи имаат потекло од Балканот.

Колкава е распространетоста на хаплогрупата
I “ и каде е НАЈ ЗАСТАПЕНА се гледа на сликава:





Сега ти се свиѓало тебе или не баш во МАКЕДОНИЈА таа е НАЈИЗРАЗЕНА.


 

Bratot

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Mr.M[][]N;1283221 напиша:
hahaha, ISTOCNO MAKEDONSKI JAZIK toa ti e BLGARSKI JAZIK. hahahahahah

Navistina samo vie mozete da smislite takvi gluparini.

...Srbite, Hrvatite, Bosancite, Bugarite, Slovencite, Cekoslovacite, Poljacite, Rusite.....site zboruvaat ANTICKI MAKEDONSKI JAZIK....:pos2:


10 milioni Bugari go zboruvaat jazikot na 2 milioni makedonci...nesto ne e vo red, da ne e slucajno obratno
Samo nie i Britannica encyclopaedia
:pos:




Така да пред да ти “избие“ интелектот што си го собрал во чајџилница удри си ја тимбата и размисли што ќе искењаш.
 
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Samo nie i Britannica encyclopaedia
:pos:




Така да пред да ти “избие“ интелектот што си го собрал во чајџилница удри си ја тимбата и размисли што ќе искењаш.

Дали ти е јасно, или не си приметил (или па ти одговарало) дека во истата слика што ја имаш постирано, Македонија е поистоветувана како јужни словени? Нешто што цело време категорично се одбива да се верува?

Ко прво, зашто муабетов се прави на тема за Скендербег, никогаш нема да ве разберам..

Ко второ, кога сме веќе кај тоа, илирите ги сметате за словени, а вие сте антички македонци...

Значи чекај малце лоѓика..

Александар Македонски, самиот ги сметал Илирите како посебен народ..значи, илирите не се антички македонци.

Вие македонците се поистоветувате со античките македонци (не викам дека не сте не ми скокај со контра-реплика). Тогаш вие не би биле илири.

Вие се гордеете со словенската култура, со словенскиот народ, и со словенската азбука.

Значи, се сметате за словени. Доколку словените се илири, тогаш и денешните македонци би требале да се илири. А во тој случај би биле поразлични од античките македонци, дека самиот Александар ги обележал илирите како друг народ, не како негов...

Лоѓиката не ја бива нешто...


Идемо даље..

Православието започнало некаде 7-8ми век...(доаѓањето на славите од карпатите, коинциденција?)

Кирилицата, која што ја измислуваат браќата Кирил и Методиј (според некого Македонци) одеднаш, сите словени ја користат. Значи, таа азбука, била словенска.

нека ми објасни некој, ако може ако знае, дека ја изгледа глуп сум, и не разбирам...како може, денешните македонци, да бидат и антички македонци, и словени, и илири, и епироти, и матијци, и мијаци, и шкрети, и све могуче.....и на крај да останат само 1.3 миљона народ во држава од едвај 28.000км квадратни??

Како може да потекнуваш ем од антички македонци ем од словени ем од илири ем од епироти?

Доколку сте илири, што толку ви пречи албанскиот јазик, и албанците? :)

П.С најпријателски совет, немој Британика да ја користиш, македонците и бугарците се исто според нејзе..

ТМРО

Јазикот

П.П.С никаде во Британика античките македонци и денешните не се испостоветуваат како еден ист народ.
 
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П.П.С никаде во Британика античките македонци и денешните не се испостоветуваат како еден ист народ.
Е, и? Се чудам зошто постирате енциклопедиски текстови. Енциклопедиите еднаш пишуваат едно, подоцна може сосема спротивно. Енциклопедија ниту е историски извор ниту релевантно мерило.
 

PIRRO

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Epirotarum Et Macedoniae Rex. :helou:
Е така ... Крал на Епир и Македонија... А што гледам сакаш да учиш за албанските кралеви еве да прочиташ нешто и за Џон Музака, Епирскиот деспот, неговите наследници и нормално се спомнува целиот кралски род... (инаку убаво се насмеав кога излезе потомокот на Цар Лазар и изјави дека има албанско потекло :) )

1515
John Musachi:
Brief Chronicle on the Descendants of our Musachi Dynasty


The chronicle or memoir of John Musachi (Ital. Giovanni Musachi) constitutes the oldest substantial text written by an Albanian. Musachi, despot of Epirus, was of a noble, ruling family from the Myzeqe region of central Albania. He was forced to abandon his land and take flight to Italy when Albanian resistance to the Ottoman conquest collapsed and the country was occupied by the Turks. The prime objective in his chronicle was not to provide a history of his times, but simply to prove to his descendants that they were of an important, landowning family so that they did not forget their origins and property rights. While the chronicle is no work of great scholarship and may prove confusing to students of history, it is nonetheless an important source not only for late fifteenth-century Albania, but also for Albanian toponyms and the names of local Albanian rulers. Indeed it is significant as proof of the rise of the Albanians as a distinct ethnic group.
Appendixed to the chronicle, though not included here, is a text by John's son, Constantine Musachi, dated 1535, in which the latter states that his father "was buried in the large church of Francavilla in the country of Otranto in a marble grave where mass is conducted three times a week. On it is an inscription reading: Almighty Jesus, this is the grave of John Musachi, the son of Gjin the Despot, Lord of Epirus and of Myzeqe, who stemmed from the city of Byzantium and bore the double headed eagle as his emblem. To him was dedicated this wreath in the year of our lord 1510." For this reason, the following chronicle is traditionally dated 1510. A reference in the text to the Battle of Chaldiran in 1514 proves, however, that John Musachi cannot have died before 1515.

...
I, Lord John (Giovanni) Musachi, Despot of Epirus, having been expelled from my home by the Sultan and having been deprived of the said country, arrived in the Kingdom of Naples where King Ferdinand (1) of Aragon, caring for my essential needs and those of my family, promised to assist me and give me land in Apice as well as other things. He also accepted us at his court. It was my misfortune, however, that he perished and that unexpected wars began. I was left like a ship without a rudder in the midst of a great storm, not even knowing the Italian language. But as it please God, I was able to raise you and ensure that you were nourished in that country, you my children, Lord Theodore, Lord Adrian, Lord Constantine and your two sisters Lady Helena and Lady Porphida, though this was not accomplished without trial and tribulation. When I arrived in this country, you, Lord Theodore, were one and a half years old, and you, Lord Adrian, were one and a half months old, whereas you, Lord Constantine, were born in this kingdom.
I wish you to know that the destruction of the Byzantine Empire, which also meant our own destruction, began with a disagreement between Palaeologus (2) and Cantacuzene (3). This led to Palaeologus asking assistance from Murad I, the King of the Turks (4). The latter set foot in Europe, it is said, in 1363.
Passing through all these countries, he occupied much land, among which was the city of Adrianopole (Edirne). When Murad the Second (5) took power, he seized Serbia and Bulgaria in a huge onslaught. Lazar (6), the Despot of Serbia, and King Marko of Bulgaria and Theodore Musachi, the second-born of our family, and the other Lords of Albania united and set off for battle, which the Christians lost (7). It was there that the above mentioned Theodore, who had a large band of Albanians with him, was slain. The said Lazar of Serbia was taken prisoner and later slain. Now began a period of continuous warfare with the Turks in Albania, in which many lords and gentlemen gave their lives. As mentioned above, it was a lack of courage among them that caused them to lose their states. The city of Croya (Kruja) fell during the reign of Bayazid (8) the First, as later did Velona (Vlora), although we defended them without interruption. Nonetheless, the power of the sultan continued to grow and our power continued to diminish.
After a fierce attack by Bayazid, my grandfather, Lord Andrew Musachi, was dispossessed of a part of Devoli (Devoll) and Musacchia (Myzeqe), which he recuperated. He never lost any other part of the country. My father and your grandfather, Lord Ginno (Gjin), reigned over the country of our forefathers and, though he lost part of Myzeqe, he was able to retrieve it.
All the young lords of Albania thus died in battle. Only the following lords remained alive: Lord Arianiti Comnenus, Lord Coico (Gojko) Balsha, Lords Nicholas and Paul Dukagjini, my father Lord Gjin Musachi, Lord Andrew Thopia and Lord Peter Spani. They all lived to an advanced age and most of them reigned long. They had other children, too, but few in number because they were tied down by continuous warfare. Nonetheless, they defended the land as best they could, although they did lose much of the country.
Later, during the reign of Murad the Second, Scanderbeg arrived, the son of Lord John Castriota, who ruled over Matia (Mat) in Albania. His father had given him and his two brothers as hostages to the said Murad when they were all small. The other two died. When he turned Turk, the one called George Castriota became known as Scanderbeg, meaning Alexander and Bey, which is a ruler. When he grew up, he managed to gain influence and was clever and courageous. When his father died, he escaped from the sultan. It is said that when the sultan sent the Pasha of Roumelia to fight against the Hungarians, he sent Scanderbeg with him. The said pasha was defeated, the Turkish army routed, and the said Scanderbeg took flight with the others. As fate would have it, the chancellor of the pasha happened to be with him. Scanderbeg took him prisoner and forced him to issue a decree in the name of the sultan for the governor of Kruja to cede that territory to him. The chancellor finally agreed to sign the decree, although against his will. So he then slew the said chancellor so that nothing of the matter would ever be revealed. He then took to the road with a number of Albanians who were with him and, having arrived in Albania, entered Kruja. He presented the decree to the governor and the governor turned the place over to him. He thus became Lord of Kruja, a mighty fortress. All the rulers of Albania rejoiced at the event and Scanderbeg immediately became a Christian.
He then summoned the said rulers of Albania to a meeting at Alessio (Lezha) (9). Some came in person and others sent their representatives. Thus the said Scanderbeg became their commander-in-chief in Albania and each of them donated either men or money according to his capabilities. Other sons of these noblemen also served under his command, taking part in the war and defending their country.
The said lord was skilled and courageous in warfare and became commander-in-chief, and everyone obeyed him.
The said Scanderbeg married the daughter of Lord Arianiti Comnenus and this lord sent my father, Lord Gjin, as a matchmaker because the said Lord Arianiti was the brother in law of my father. He was married to Maria Musachi, the sister of my father, by means of whom, as I said, the marriage was concluded. He took Lady Andronica Comneniates for his wife, who was my cousin, and she adopted the surname Scanderbeg from her husband. Later, the said lord, by means of his virtue, his courage and with assistance from these other lords, carried out many an onslaught against the Turks and won many victories, though not without losses on the part of our lords and cavalrymen.
But in the end, the forces of the sultan increased and when Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, the Morea and everything else that remained of these countries were taken, we were no longer able to resist.
They also took away from us Myzeqe and Belgrado (Berat), the aforementioned capital thereof. My father died a little earlier, not only of old age, but also of suffering and despair. His brother in law Arianiti Comnenus also perished.
Lord Scanderbeg, realizing that he was being overwhelmed by the enemy and that there was little hope left, fell sick with a fever in Lezha and died in 1466 (10) at the age of sixty three. You can imagine how much land was lost with [the death of] such a commander. There were few sons of noblemen left alive after such long and bloody battles. Almost all the old men had perished, either of old age or out of despair.
Lady Scanderbeg, his wife, departed for the Kingdom of Naples when her husband died. With her were their young son, Lord John, and my two sisters, whose husbands had been slain in fighting. One of them was Lady Maria who is the wife of Lord Musachi Comnenus, commonly known as Dangelino. The other one was Lady Helena who was married to Lord George Carles.
The aforementioned Lady Maria took with her only her grown up daughter Lady Porphida. Helena also had a daughter with her, called Voisava. Other women arrived, too, and were well received by the said king.
I stayed behind in our country and the other noblemen remained on their land for a short time, for as long as the Venetians remained to support us. We were constantly wearied and were under attack for about six years. I had very little of the country under my control, for the other part of it had been captured.
I was still in our country, in Lesser Myzeqe, also known as Tomonishta, when King Frederick of Aragon, who was crown prince at the time, proceeded with the army of King Ferdinand, his father, to take Durazzo (Durrës) from the Venetians. I was called to assist by the proveditor of the Venetian government, which was situated in the said city of Durrës. I arrived in support of the Venetians with good troops, both infantry and cavalry, and freed Durrës from the said prince, Don Frederick. But the Venetians later made peace and I did not want to be part of it. Indeed they treated me as if I had been defeated. Such was my recompense.
 

PIRRO

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Despots of the Palaeologus dynasty The sixth one was Lord Andrew, Despot of Risa. The seventh one was Despot Andronicus, Despot of Salonika. The eighth one was Despot Theodore, Despot of Silvera. The ninth one was Despot Demetrius, Despot of Mistra. The tenth one was Despot Thomas, Despot of Patras.
The first five aforementioned despots were the sons of the Emperor Emanuel of the house of Palaeologus. Thereafter came John Cantacuzene and there were other despots, too, but I don't remember their names.
Know also that Lord John Castriota, the father of Lord Scanderbeg, was married to Lady Voisava Tribalda, with whom he had four sons and five daughters.
The first son was called Repossio, the second Stanisso (Stanisha), the third Constantine, and the fourth George. The said Repossio was a religious man and journeyed to Mount Sinai where he became a monk and died. The other three were given by their father to the sultan, as you learned earlier.
The first daughter was Lady Maria, the second Lady Yela, the third Lady Angelina, the fourth Lady Vlaica and the fifth Lady Mamiza (Mamica).
The first daughter, Lady Maria, was married to Lord Stephen Cernojevic. The second, Lady Yela, was married to [...]. The third, Lady Angelina, was married to Lord Vladino Arianiti Comnenus. The fourth, Lady Vlaica, was married to Lord Balsha, and the fifth, Lady Mamica, was married to Lord Musachi Thopia.
To the said third daughter, Lady Angelina and the said Lord Vladino Comnenus or Comneniates was born the aforementioned Musachi Comnenus, commonly known as Dangelino. He was the nephew of Scanderbeg. He was married, as I have said, to my sister Maria, and from them was born Donna Porphida Comneniates who, as noted above, was with the queen. For this reason, she was called the Great Donna Porphida.
To the fourth sister, Lady Vlaica, who was married to Lord Balsha, was born John and Coico Balsha. This Lord Coico was the father of the lady, Countess of Muro.
The fifth daughter, Lady Mamica, was married to Musachi Thopia after Lord Scanderbeg forced him to divorce his first wife called Lady Zanfina or Suina Musachi and to marry Lady Mamica, his sister, as you will see later. The father of Lord Moses Comnenus Arianiti was Musachi, the brother of Lord Arianiti Comneniates. His mother was called Lady Voisava and this Lord Moses was married to the said Lady Zanfina or Suina Musachi, who had been the wife of Lord Musachi Thopia, whom the said Scanderbeg caused to be divorced. To Lord Moses and Lady Zanfina was born the father of Lady Joan Comneniates who is in Naples, married to Lord Paul Brancazzo. This Lord Moses was a courageous man.
I would like to add that our land in Tomorica had four barons whom I know of. One of them was Gjin of Bogdan who ruled over Barlois and five other villages. The other one was Bardi Fachiemiri (Bardh Faqлmiri) who had two other villages called Barci (Barз). Then there was Joan Visagni (Vishanj) and a Duke of Dobril (Dobrenj?) who had Gurisciti (Gurishta). Another was Basan Bilochisi who had only Disguimari, and there was another one who had only one hamlet called Aidin. There were also two others from the Cervota lineage. One was John Cervota and the other Martin Cervota. There was also a Count Balguri (Ballguri) who had a village called Guerbisi (Gjerbлs) and who was the voyvode of Tomorica.
As I have stated, the said region of Tomorica belonged to our family and the said barons were subject to us, and the said voyvode was appointed as governor by our family. The word voyvode means the same as a captain or governor.
 

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