Првиот линк не ти работаТ, вториот линк не ти работат, а и третиот линк не ти работат.
Од кај крадиш?
Btw, како еден краток куриозитет, во последно нешто гледам некои мои блиски момчаци контактираат со Steve C. Bird, кој момак кажуе нешто друго...
Во општествата каде национализмот не е насочен према аљбанците, и каде односот према балканците е сосема неутрален, така да не мора да слушам некој си искомплексиран идиот како тебе, кој и земјотрес да здрма, ги окривува албанците кој дошле од кавказ...
Иаме еден голем проблем кој се јавува, во светот на генетиката и на историјата, која сепак не се коси со досегашните сознанија на најавтохтоноста на албанците на балкан, туку со името на нивните претци...
Налет другото, ќе ме напраиш да не спијам, и да ти куцам нешо ама ај предизвик ми си, уште овдека не сум те "клапнал"...
Имено, имаме еден пријател мој, аљбанац кој лично и персонално упатува прашање до дотичниот господин Steven C. Bird:
Прво Стиви му одговара на некое прашање, кое не е битно... а одговорот е
Albania and Kosovo (which is largely Albanian in ethnicity) appear to have the highest percentage concentrations of E3b1a2 in the world, according to both Cruciani 2007 and Pericic 2005. This observation is also supported by the data at YHRD.
My question is related to the movement of these haplotypes to other parts of the world. Specifically, is there any historical evidence for a migration, prior to 1600 A.D., from Albania and/or Kosovo to the British Isles? I have read the easily available information out there on the 'net and have found no mention of this anywhere. I will also be the first to admit that my knowledge of Albanian history is not the best.
Still, if there was ever a group of people that appeared to stay in one place for a long time, it was the Albanians.
Thoughts and comments are welcome.
Steve
Следува прашање од мојот ДРУГАР албанац:
Hi Steve, I am albanian and like you, I'am interest to know much more about this fact!
Well in albania we all know that we are the most old population in balcans and that we inhabited before Hellens and Slavs came, so isn't a surprise for us these surveys!
Do you know this study?
http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak...nak_jezik=15462
"HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population
Z. Grubi}1, V. Kerhin-Brklja~i}1, E. ^e~uk-Jeli~i}1, S. Kuci2 and A. Ka{telan1
1 National Referral Organ Transplantation and Tissue Typing Center,University Hospital Center Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia
2 Faculty of Medicine Pri{tina, Pri{tina, Kosovo
A B S T R A C T: The HLA class I polymorphism was studied in a sample of the Albanian population.
Ninety-three unrelated healthy Albanians were typed for HLA-A, -B and -Cw antigens by standard microlyphocytotoxicity test. The antigens with the highest frequencies were: HLA-A2 (34.4%), A3 (14.5%) and A1 (12.4%); B51 (19.3%), B35 (12.4%) and B18 (10.2%); Cw4 (16.2%), Cw7 (16.2%) and Cw6 (10.8%). The HLA haplotypes with high frequency in Albanians included A2-B51 (4.3%), A2-B18 (2.4%), A2-B35 (2.4%),Cw4-B35 (7.6%), and Cw7-B18 (6.5%), which are not significantly different from the other neighboring populations. Low frequency of HLA-A1-B8 haplotype (1.1%) is noted in the Albanian population. The frequency of HLA-B27 antigen (1.1%) is one of the lowest
frequencies observed in Caucasians. Such results are important in studies of HLA-A1-B8, HLA-B27 and disease associations. These findings should be also useful in
understanding the origin of Albanians, representing a base for future studies about HLA polymorphism in the Albanian population... Albanians are a very homogenous population, their history suggests that they did not mix with neighboring populations. It is assumed that Albanians have
Illyrian origin4."
Потоа Стиви му одговара на овој начин:
Thanks for the link, Bilderberg! I had not seen this particular HLA study, but I have seen a similar one which appeared to distinguish (FYROM) Macedonians from Greeks. What is interesting to me is that in the year that this particular study was done (2000) about 25% of Macedonians were described as ethnically Albanian, especially in Skopje.
The report you cited mentions specifically that the two most ancient populations of the Balkans are the Illyrians and the Thracians (p. 304). There is an interesting comment on the same page of this study that compared the HLA-A32 results with those of two Italian villages populated exclusively with southern Albanians, who I assume would be Tosk speakers, nd did not find as strong a connection as was expected. Perhaps the E3b1a2 population is largely Gheg-speaking, i.e. northern Albanian? That would seem to fit well with the predominance of this HG in Kosovo also. Does that make any sense to you?
I know that traditionally, Albanians view themselves as being descended from Illyrians. Do you have any opinion concerning the alternative idea of them being of Thracian descent? Dardania in particular was apparently the zone of contact between these two language groups and cultures. Could it be that Gheg is Thracian and Tosk is Illyrian? Just a speculation on my part...
I appreciate your perspective on this and thanks for taking the time to reply.
Steve
Aј анасана... чудно а ?
Сакаш уште? Ако не ми се спие ќе ти бапнам уште... И давај автентични линкови, а не муабети од курот вадени!
Светските генетичари и историчари не носејќи го товарот на комплексот што ти го носиш општат и дискутираат на следниов начин:
As for the Dacian borders, they were probably imprecise even back then. Nominally, it is certain that all Transylvania, Little Wallachia (Oltenia) and between 1/2 Eastern part of Banat up to the whole Banat were part of Roman Dacia. I believe other territories, such as Greater Wallachia and southern Moldova might have been annexed to Dacia at some point or at least were in the Dacian sphere of influence.
It is not clear how much colonization actually happened in Dacia after 106 AD. Most likely, many veterans and colonists were brought here from the whole Roman Empire, with many from Thracia, Syria, Palestine, Spain, as far as north Africa. Were the Dacians/Getae "destroyed"? Were they resettled? We know later on of the Dacian cohors that built the Hadrian Wall in Scotland/England. Should these Dacians have had children there, no wonder some Romanians should have matches with people from Britain today. But several question remain. Did Dacian lineages survive in Romania today? Or elsewhere? What really happened when Emperor Aurelianus withdrew from Dacia? This is a matter of controversy. Some say that the whole "civilized" population and administration withdrew south, to the two little Dacias created south of the Danube, in Dacia Aureliana. Or did most of the local population remain, while only the military and administration left Dacia in 271 AD? The province was effectively lost under Galienus, back in 260-262 AD, when the Goths started to trickle in Dacia, along with free Dacians and Carpians. Are the Albanians the descendants of Dacians? And for those left in Dacia, how much of that hetero-stratum survived the Gothic invasion? When the Goths left Dacia because of the Huns, about a million of Goths were allowed to settle south of the Danube. Did only the Goths leave or did the previous population, as well? That is another question. And we know of the miserable life of these Goths,. how they were not allowed to hold weapons and of their rebellion and dispersion in the Empire afterwards.
Lastly, it is still unclear how the Romanian people came about. And what is the origin for the bulk part. Was it from Dacia, from the Balkans or a mix? I'd go for the latter option. There is some sort of evidence to support any of the three options so I will not dismiss any. Time will perhaps tell. And hopefully DNA genealogy might give some answers in 10 years from now. In my Romania Project (which is geographic and includes all nationalities with roots in Romania and nearby) I barely have 43 members. Out of them ethnic Romanians may be about 10-15. We need more people to test. So far, it is an entire rainbow of haplogroups.
Are the Albanians the descendants of Dacians?
Одговор на ова прашање:
Great idea bringing this up, I was going to address it previously as well because I've only recently noticed something regarding the relationship between the two. A great deal of noise is made by Hungarian chauvinists that Albanian and Romanian share similar aspects in the language they both speak, I'm not a linguist, I can't assess this; they use this quite extensively to assert the [via the Migration theory] origin of Romanians in being around the area precisely known as modern
Albania [scroll down until you reach the first map, displays the alleged "Early Vlach" homeland]. Now, I don't have the specific studies with me, they're on another computer, but from briefly using wikipedia and through perusing the statistics on Y-Hg distribution amongst Kosovar Albanians/Albanians themselves, they have an very high frequency of Hg E3b, approximately 45%/25% with the next nearest Haplogroups being R1b at around 20%/17%, J2 at about 16%/14%. Either way, the overwhelming identifying element amongst the Albanian population [especially Kosovars] seems to be E3b - it seems to be the epicentre of the Haplogroup in the Balkans - assuming that Romanians are related to Albanians via geographic origin as the previous website I cited claimed, and assuming that Albanians are themselves native inhabitants of the region and not some migratory peoples as many Serb chauvinists would accuse, then we should expect roughly similar proportions of E3b and the other major haplogroups in Romania would we not? Well, the Romanian E3b component lower then both, estimated at 20%; R1b comes in at about 18%, more or less the average of the Albanians; unfortunately, I don't have any information about the distribution of J2. Furthermore, Romanians seem to have an abundance of Hg I [22%], similar to Albanians [24%] but oddly, completely opposite from Kosovars [3%] and obviously, Romanians are expected to have greater R1a input [20%]. So, based on these statistics, I'd say the two populations are rather similar, but I remember from the Russian Patrilineal Study that when you look at the distribution frequencies along the map, you'll see that the representation of the two nations are not indicative of any special relationship.
Furthermore, in support of the Continuity Theory, assuming that the spread of R1a roughly represents the migration of Slavic tribes, when examining the frequency distribution of this haplogroup, we can see it strangely curving "around" the Romanian/Vlach landmass - undoubtedly, it was relatively porous, but this is a general observation - into Hungary/Slovakia/Czech Republic and then ending off at the tip in Croatia and Slovenia [highest frequencies in the Balkans]. It seems to me, that this pattern of movement would indicate an established population already in the Romanian plains and forests, i.e. Daco-Romanians at the time of the migration [6th Century CE]. Otherwise, I simply do not see why the migrating peoples would not have taken advantage of the sweeping Wallachian and Moldovan plains to quickly advance into Bulgaria and the rest of the Southern Balkans unless a distinct population already resided in the region. Just a theory, who knows?
Е арно ама тука се умешува Steve C. Bird и ја ебаа цела работа... Ја исправа како пушка права да бидет...
И на ова 3. Isn't it odd that both the Moldovan sample groups have higher E3b1 [M78] frequencies [even higher if you add M123] than those in Romania given that the E3b1 haplogroups are supposed to represent a migration from the south of the Balkans, ostensibly via Romania, yet Romanian samples show a lower prevalence of this haplogroup. What explanation could there be, or is the disparity so subtle it is inconsequential?
Одговара со ова
It's not subtle compared with the southern Balkans. The highest percentages of E3b1-M78 are found in Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia (both FYROM and Greek Macedonia) and strangely, in the Greek Argolid (Lerna/Franchthi Cave) in the northern Peloponnese. In Kosovo, for example it reaches about 40% of the male population, while in Lerna it is about 35%. It is becoming more clear that E3b1a2-V13 in particular is linked with the Neolithic population of all of the southern Balkans. Moldovan samples are perhaps linked to the Getae, a northern Thracian tribe.
Steve
На оваа мислење, Стиви му го приклонува и ова:
http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/vg/vg.html
