Доселувањето на Албанците во Македонија

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Rigel Kent

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Penny cyclopaedia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful published 1842

Веќе почнал процесот на Грцизација, оти Грција се ослободи и конституира држава во 1825 година.

Koga Suliotite stanale Arvani? Pod vlast na regionalnite vladeteli koi stapile vo vazalen odnos so Srbite. A za grcizacija toa nesomneno e taka , toa go uvidov i vo Grcija -Epir no i vo Albanija (onoj del koj go spomenav dolz krajbrezjeto) site go znaat i grckiot jazik no ne vo ovaa moderna forma.Majcin sepak im e vlaski.
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Koga Suliotite stanale Arvani? Pod vlast na regionalnite vladeteli koi stapile vo vazalen odnost so Srbite. A za grcizacija toa nesomneno e taka , toa go uvidov i vo Grcija -Epir no i vo Albanija (onoj del koj go spomenav dolz krajbrezjeto) site go znaat i grckiot jazik no ne vo ovaa moderna forma.Majcin sepak im e vlaski.
Абе добро, ова е твое мислење, твое искуство, ти гледаш така, јас гледам поинаку, важно да си се дружиме, а историјата и документите зборуваат ептен нешто трето.
 
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Како бе така носеле Српски имиња. А бе тие си ги носеле СВОИТЕ имиња. Тоа што вие ги правите сите до ред Албанци - тоа е друга работа...
Грешиш многу. Времињата се менуваат. Ама Македонија е вечна. Може само вас да ве нема... Жалам што вака размислуваш.
Glupa Albanska propaganda...sto drugo se ocekuva od niv?

Propagandno e tvrdenjeto deka Albancite se avtohtoni vo Makedonija.
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Glupa Albanska propaganda...sto drugo se ocekuva od niv?

Propagandno e tvrdenjeto deka Albancite se avtohtoni vo Makedonija.
Документи имаш? Не пиши, не му фаќај простор на некој шо можи ќе кажи нешто. Разбери еднаш веќе.
 
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Dokumentite se prilozeni vo prvite strani. Albanska propaganda vi e vperena v mozok.

Doseluvanje na Albanci se sluci. Albanizacija na zapadna Makedonija se sluci i seuste se slucuva na ist grozomoren nacin kako sto se slucuvase vo istorijata.

While most Albanians still live in the countryside, the overwhelming majority of
Macedonians by contrast live in towns. Many Macedonians now deplore that urbanization has
led to the ‘Albanization’ of Macedonian territory because the Albanians would follow a
deliberate policy of demographic and territorial expansion. The Albanian Muslims

(…) were perceived often as occupying the physical and imagined territory of the
countryside from which Macedonians left in the time of socialist Yugoslavia. This
identification of Albanians clearly represented a negatively charged stereotype, imbued
with certain qualities of alleged ‘backwardness’ (Brown 2000: 125).
 

Picasso`

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Еј, море, слеп си или шо е проблемот. Сите се побиени, има документи стари, 13,14,15 век, што зборуваат за присуство на албанци во овие простори. Крај! Не замарај, оти знаеш како онаа фекалијата на чевел си. Толку неинтелигентно дете неам видено...
 
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Hahaha kako da ne. Pobieni se vasite dokumenti...se povikuvate na pasishta...nomadi...ovcari, kozari,stocari... doselenici.

Drugo, ovaa tema mora da postoi, bez razlika kolku dusevno ja interpretiraat bolkata vo ovaa tema, Albancite. Sto se se zboruva po Albanskite forumi, ovaa tema e bas super.
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Hahaha kako da ne. Pobieni se vasite dokumenti...se povikuvate na pasishta...nomadi...ovcari, kozari,stocari... doselenici.

Drugo, ovaa tema mora da postoi, bez razlika kolku dusevno ja interpretiraat bolkata vo ovaa tema, Albancite. Sto se se zboruva po Albanskite forumi, ovaa tema e bas super.
Абе ти не си возможен бре, што е проблемот имаш мака со умот? ДОКУМЕНТ КАДЕ ЗБОРУВА ЗА ПРИСУСТВО НА АЛБАНЦИ! БИЛЕ НОМАДИ НЕ БИЛЕ НОМАДИ НЕМА ВРСКА! ПРИСУТНИ СЕ! ИМАШ ПОСТАР!? НЕМАШ. ЌУТИ! НЕ МИ ДУЈ МАДИЊА ОТИ ДОСАДЕН СИ НЕ ГЛЕДАШ ЦЕЛО ВРЕМЕ ВЕРГЛАШ ЕДНО ИСТО.
 
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Ve molam da ja najdete slednata kniga :)

Demografski procesi i promeni vo Makedonija od krajot na XIV vek do Balkanskite vojni. So poseben osvrt na turskoto koloniziranje, izlamiziranjeto, poturchvanjeto, albanizacijata i migraciiite vo Makedonija, Skopje: INI/Matica Makedonska, 2000 od Gligor Todorovski...Mnogu e interesna :)

I nemoj poveke da me citiras! Nikade ne go spomnav tvoeto ime i nemas pravo da me citiras!
 

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Најверодостојни аргументи за староседелството на еден народ се археолошките артефакти,ископини,градби.Е тука Пикасо може ли да ни посочиш баредм некои со кое ке го потврдиш т.н. староседелство на Албанците во Македонија(нормално пред доаѓањето на Турците) а?
 

Picasso`

Schizophrenic!
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Ve molam da ja najdete slednata kniga :)

Demografski procesi i promeni vo Makedonia od krajot na XIV vek do Balkanskite vojni. So poseben osvrt na turskoto koloniziranje, izlamiziranjeto, poturchvanjeto, albanizacijata i migraciiite vo Makedonija, Skopje: INI/Matica Makedonska, 2000 od Gligor Todorovski...Mnogu e interesna :)
Ај постирај нешто од таа книга, а после истата нека ги побие овие историски документи:

1257
George Acropolites:
An Albanian Uprising
Historian George Acropolites (1217-1282) was the tutor of Emperor Theodore II Lascaris (r. 1254-1258) and later became rector of the university in Constantinople. His 'Chronicle' of the Nicaean Empire, based to a good degree on first-hand information and personal observations, covers the years 1203-1261.

When the two promised to carry out our decisions, I left them and hastened to Ohrid with my retinue to find out whether I would be able to put the situation in Albania back in order. I resolved to send the imperial sewer, Isaac Nestongus, to Albania and gave the usual orders for him to assume the supreme command. I was well aware of the fact that I could make such decisions without the slightest danger, i.e. that I could replace any of the regional tax and government officials, military commanders or local authorities at whim. I then decided to set off for Albania myself to bring the situation in that country back under control and to find out what the sewer had actually accomplished. On my departure from Albania, I took the sewer and all the forces with me because the Albanian people had acted in advance and had already carried through with their uprising. They had all defected to the turncoat Despot Michael. Since I could see for myself that everything was in turmoil, I left Dibra, where I had spent more days than necessary and where the enemy had encircled us, and took Ohrid by storm with several members of my retinue. In Ohrid I left the sewer to guard the castle and, marching through Prespa and a place called Siderokastron, reached Prilep. There I had the impression of having arrived in a safe haven.

1328, 1332, 1336
John Cantacuzene:
Unruly Nomads Pay Homage to the Emperor

Typical of the many short references to the Albanians in Byzantine chronicles is the following text by the Emperor John VI Cantacuzene (r. 1347-1355), whose 'History' covers the years 1320-1356. Here as in other texts, БИТНОthe Albanian tribes are described as wild and unruly nomads living in mountainous regions in the summer months and migrating to the lowlands in the winter months.
While the emperor was spending about eight days in Achrida (Ohrid), the Albanian nomads living in the region of Deabolis (Devoll) appeared before him, as well as those from Koloneia (Kolonja) and those from the vicinity of Ohrid (1). They paid homage to the emperor and willingly offered him their services. Those who lived farther away on the borders of the Byzantine Empire were commanded by letters from the emperor to hasten to Thessalonika in order to pay homage, which they did a short time later.
While the emperor was staying in Thessaly (2), the unruly Albanians living in the Thessalian mountains appeared before him who, according to their tribal leaders, are called Malakasians, Buians and Mesarites and whose numbers reach 12,000. They paid homage to the emperor and promised to serve him, for they were afraid of being annihilated by the Byzantines at the onset of winter, living as they do, not in towns, but in the mountains and in inaccessible regions. Since they must abandon these regions in the winter due to the cold and snow, which falls in incredible amounts in such vicinities, they believed that they would easily fall prey to them.

1515
John Musachi:
Brief Chronicle on the Descendants of our Musachi Dynasty
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1515.html

The chronicle or memoir of John Musachi (Ital. Giovanni Musachi) constitutes the oldest substantial text written by an Albanian. Musachi, despot of Epirus, was of a noble, ruling family from the Myzeqe region of central Albania. He was forced to abandon his land and take flight to Italy when Albanian resistance to the Ottoman conquest collapsed and the country was occupied by the Turks.

So that you understand properly, let me tell you that to Lord Musachi was born Lord Andrew, my grandfather, and Lord Blaise ...

Lord Andrew Musachi (1) had also called upon the assistance of his other son in law, Lord Groppa, ruler of the town of Ocrida (Ohrid) which included much surrounding land belonging to him. The town of Ohrid is situated beside a lake from which the river Drin springs and in which many carp, trout and other fine fish are caught.
(1) Andrew Musachi (1280-1319).


1575
Carlo Ranzo:
Report on a Voyage from Venice to Constantinople
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1575.html

In this report, Carlo Ranzo describes the overland passage of Venetian Ambassador Giacomo Soranzo through the mountains of Albania to and back from Constantinople. Soranzo was ambassador to London around 1553-1557 and to Constantinople in 1576-1581. This extract recounts the Albanian portion of his harrowing voyage.

Many Albanian nobles came to pay homage to His Excellency and brought him many castrated sheep, calves, hares, chickens and ducks, loads of biscuits, white bread, casks of wine of various kinds, and great quantities of salted fish. They showed signs of great affection for the Serene Lords of Venice under whose dominion they had once lived. When the horses were made ready, we set off from this town, accompanied by the said adjutant, the voivods and the four janissaries. We rode over a fair plain that stretches for 22 miles and arrived at the foot of the mountains through which we were to travel for several days. As it was late, we raised our tents to spend the night there. In the meantime, the adjutant sent the voivod to the nearest settlement to bring back a number of men who would guard us on our way. Thus, at midnight, we were presented with two hundred Albanians, inhabitants of a mountainous region called the Upper Black Mountains [Karadaku i Shkupit / Skopska Crnagora], where because of the height of the mountains, they never see the sun. In the mountains, we could hear the drum that was being beaten to inform the inhabitants that a large group of men was passing through. The man beating the drum looked like a bird to us. These people are dark-skinned. Their heads and beards were shaven, except for their moustaches. Their shirts were black with filth and they were very poorly dressed. They looked like men from hell – savage and frightening in appearance. They carried wooden bows and arrows next to their rusty swords, with wooden sheathes. On their heads, they wore caps like red berets, all greasy and ugly, and when they clambered down their mountains, they gave out cries that seemed not to be human but rather like the raging of a bull. The women, dark-skinned, too, were strong and healthy-looking, more so than the men. They wore three chains of aspers as necklaces and bracelets. These aspers, silver coins, are worth sixty to a sequin. These women brought food to our tents. There were so many women that it looked like market day. They were Christians. Accompanied by these Albanians, we rode for fourteen days through the mountains called the Black Mountains of Skopje.
 

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Најверодостојни аргументи за присуството и и староседелството на еден народ се археолошките артефакти,ископини,градби,затоа што хартијата трпи се.Пикасо можеш ли да посочош некои такви во Македонија со кои ке го докажеш т.н. ,,староседелство'' на Албанците на просторот на денешна Македонија.(нормално пред да дојдат Турците на овие простори) а?
 

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