Потеклото на Албанците

[Ч Е Н Т О]

Опомена до сите да престанете со расни теории да не одлетате сите од темава!

 

[puno]

Интересен текст за потеклото на албаскиот јазик......

http://jlu.wbtrain.com/sumtotal/lan...uryey of Albanian Language and Literature.pdf

 

[Genti.]

"Pronajdeni ciklopiski tragovi od Pelazgite ,otkrieno od Schlimann vo mesta kade ziveat isklucivo Albanci.
Nekoi mnogu interesni ostatoci bea pronajdeni vo Spata , Atika , gradovi okolu 9 milji od Atina , selo Spata i Atika bese isklucivo naseleno so Albanci .
Schliman pridruzen od profesorot Castorches od univerzitetot vo Atina , naodjal eden spomenik-grob vo vnatresnosta so nekolku sobi , vo dlabina okolu tri metri .."
Istrazuvanjeto vo toj del donese svetlina , koj Dr.Schliman i drugite Arheologi se soglasuvaat deka tie objekti se najstari vo Grcija ..."

Naslov : “Athens, the violet- crowned”, 1913
Avtor : Whiting, Lilian, 1847-1942
Izdaval : Boston, Little, Brown, and Company

 

[Ч Е Н Т О]

"...and to-day is peopled by Albanians."

Тие Албанци таму се доселени во доцните средни векови.

 

[Bratot]

"...and to-day is peopled by Albanians."

Тие Албанци таму се доселени во доцните средни векови.

In addition, as the theme was a major base for Byzantine operations across the Adriatic into southern Italy, and hosted a contingent of Mardaites marines, probably under their own katepano.[6][2] Warren Treadgold conjecturally estimates its military strength at some 1,000 infantry and marines in the 9th–10th centuries.[14]

Веќе приложив објаснување од каде дошле и како стигнале Мардаитите на Пелопонез и Епир, што претставува почеток на “албанското“ присуство на Балканот.

Μαρδαΐται
http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Migne/Constantinus Porphyrogenitus_PG 112-113/

"...strengthening it by the resettlement of over 18,500 Mardaites."

A various places at this website I have featured a quotation from the De Administrando Imperio of the Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus:

All terrible evils has Romania suffered from the Arabs even until now [Greek text edited by Gy. Moravcsik, Dumbarton Oaks Texts, 1967, 2008, p.94].​

This was itself a quote from The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor [cf. The Chronicle of Theophanes, Anno mundi 6095-6305 (A.D. 602-813), University of Pennsylvania Press, 1982, p.61 for the year 678 AD]. The statement was in the context of the disposition of the Mardaïtes. According to Warren Treadgold, these were "Christian freebooters," i.e. something between bandits and guerrillas, who had been surrounded by the Arab conquest on Mt. Amanus between Syria and Cilicia [A History of the Byzantine State and Society, Stanford University Press, 1997, p.327]. Many of the Mardaïtes had then moved to Mt. Lebanon, where they, the Maronites, other Christian refugees, and escaped slaves began plundering the adjacent territories of the Omayyad Caliph Mu'âwiya. It sounds like Mu'âwiya was somewhat embarrassed by this activity. In 679 Justinian II negotiated a settlement, by which the Mardaïtes would be withdrawn in exchange for an annual tribute (216,000 solidi and some slaves and horses). Theophanes did not consider this a good deal: "The Emperor sent messengers who seized 12,000 Mardaites, mutilating the Roman state... After they were transplanted, Romania has suffered all sorts of evils at the hands of the Arabs up until the present day" [Theophanes, op. cit., p.61]. In other words, at a time of continued Roman reversals and Arab conquests, Justinian II voluntarily withdrew the autonomous forces of a successful counterattack against the heart of Omayyad power, in exchange for some nominal tribute that certainly the Omayyads soon ceased to pay.


A fleet of one hundred and twelve galleys, and seventy-five vessels of the Pamphylian style, was equipped in the capital, the islands of the Aegean Sea, and the seaports of Asia, Macedonia, and Greece. It carried thirty-four thousand mariners, seven thousand three hundred and forty soldiers, seven hundred Russians, and five thousand and eighty-seven Mardaites, whose fathers had been transplanted from the mountains of Libanus.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/g/gibbon/edward/g43d/chapter53.html

The Theme of Hellas (θέμα Ἑλλάδος), founded in ca. 686–689 by Justinian II, encompassing the imperial possessions of southern Greece with capital at Corinth. Justinian settled 6,500 Mardaites there, who provided oarsmen and garrisons.[169]
Treadgold, Warren T. (1997), A History of the Byzantine State and Society, Stanford University Press, ISBN 0804726302

32 CHANGES OF THE POPULATION.

their attention by the spectacle of desolate provinces and
§5. uninhabited cities, by forming colonies on a scale that
excites our wonder even in this age of colonisation. We
have seen that the Emperor Justinian II. transported nearly two hundred thousand Sclavonians to Asia on one occasion. His removal of the Mardaite population of Mount Lebanon was on the same extensive scale.
Future emperors encouraged emigration to as great an
extent. A colony of Persians was established on the banks of the Vardar (Axios) as early as the reign of Theophilus, (a.d. 829-842,) and it long continued to
flourish and supply recruits for a cohort of the imperial
guard, which bore the name of the Vardariots.^ Various
colonies of the different Asiatic nations who penetrated
into Europe from the north of the Black Sea in the
tenth, eleventh, and twelfth centuries, were also established in Macedonia and Thrace. In the year 106.5 a colony of Uzes was settled in Macedonia ; and this settlement
acquired so much importance that some of its chiefs rose
to the rank of senators, and filled high oificial situations
at Constantinople. 2 Anna Comnena mentions colonies of Turks established in the neighbourhood of Achrida
before the reign of her father, (a.d. 1081.^) A colony
of Patzinaks was settled in the western part of Macedonia
by John II. in the year 1123;^ and colonies of Romans
were also established both in Macedonia and Thrace,
after the empire had been depopulated by the Crusaders
and Bulgarians, by John III. (Vatatzes) in the year
1243.^ All these different nations were often included under the general name of Turks ; and, indeed, most of them were descended from Turkish tribes.

THE HISTOHY OF GREECE FROM ITS CONQUEST BY THE CRUSADERS TO
ITS CONQUEST BY THE TURKS AND OF THE EMPIEE OF TREBIZOND 1204-1461

GEORGE FINLAY
http://www02.us.archive.org/stream/cu31924028326878/cu31924028326878_djvu.txt

Страна 43 и 44:
Byzantine Epirus: A Topography of Transformation. Settlements of the Seventh ...

By Myrto Veikou

http://books.google.sk/books?id=dKI...=onepage&q=Mardaites Epir Peloponnese&f=false


In the ninth and tenth centuries we find Mardaites also in the Peloponnesus, at Nicopolis in Epirus, and Cephalonia: Theophanes Continuatus, 304, 311; Constantine Porphyrogenitus, De ceremoniis, I (Bonn, 1829), 665. *» Gal. Ill 27, 28.
Studies on the demography of the Byzantine empire: collected studiesAuthor Peter Charanis
http://books.google.sk/books?id=RFV...en&sa=X&ei=dwghUfTcNMGjtAbZnoCICw&redir_esc=y

http://books.google.sk/books?id=6y3...ir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Mardaites Epirus&f=false


....to be continued

 

[puno]

ALBANIANS IN GEEECE. S7

bore that name in the time of Ptolemy, and continued to chap. i.
retain it under the Byzantine government.^ The Turks § 7.
have corrupted the word in Elbassan. Reasonable doubts ' '
may nevertheless be entei'tained, whether the Albanians
of the present day have any greater resemblance to the
Albanians of the time of Ptolemy, than the Britons
of the present day have to the Britons of the time of
Caesar.

The history of no European race is more obscure than
that of the Albanian, for it is impossible to fix with cer-
tainty whether they are the descendants of some ancient
people, Epirots or Macedonians, or a new nation, formed,
like the French and English, from an admixture of more
than one dissimilar race. The basis of their language
seems to indicate a closer affinity to the Latin than to the
Greek, but whether their language be a corruption of the
Pelasgic, or of one of the ancient dialects of Epirus,
Macedonia, Illyria, or Thrace, or a tongue framed like
our own, by foreign emigrants, requires to be determined
by a more critical study of its elements than has hitherto
been bestowed on the subject. It may then, perhaps, be
determined whether the Skipetar race is entitled to boast
of a descent from the mountaineers of Epirus, or whether
it consists of northern tribes, forced into the seats they
now occupy by the great emigrations that marked the
fall of the Roman empire.

Anna Comnena mentions the Albanians more than
once. She indicates that they had acquired some pohti-
cal importance, though in her time they do not appear to
have occupied a very extensive territory.^ In the twelfth
and thirteenth centuries, they are mentioned by more
than one Byzantine writer. Pachymeres and Nicephorus
Gregoras call them lUyrians, but Chalcocondylas objects
to that name, and thinks they were rather of Macedonian

1 Ptolemcei Geog., lib. iii., cap. xiii. § 23.
3 Anna Comnena, 122, 165, 390.

Од изворот на БРАТОТ, кога ви велам јас дека братот придонесува најмногу за потеклото на албанците вие не ми верувате:
http://www02.us.archive.org/stream/cu31924028326878/cu31924028326878_djvu.txt
--- надополнето: 17 февруари 2013 во 20:13 ---

In addition, as the theme was a major base for Byzantine operations across the Adriatic into southern Italy, and hosted a contingent of Mardaites marines, probably under their own katepano.[6][2] Warren Treadgold conjecturally estimates its military strength at some 1,000 infantry and marines in the 9th–10th centuries.[14]

Што има врска ова со албанците????

Веќе приложив објаснување од каде дошле и како стигналеМардаитите на Пелопонез и Епир, што претставува почеток на “албанското“ присуство на Балканот.

Си приложил пишувања каде се вели дека во Анатолија и Геција дошле 10000 мардаитес како војници....
А што има врска со албанците??

Μαρδαΐται
http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Migne/Constantinus Porphyrogenitus_PG 112-113/

Што значи ова? и што има врска со албанците?????

"...strengthening it by the resettlement of over 18,500 Mardaites."

Каде го најде ова???

A various places at this website I have featured a quotation from the De Administrando Imperio of the Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus:

All terrible evils has Romania suffered from theArabs even until now [Greek text edited by Gy. Moravcsik, Dumbarton Oaks Texts, 1967, 2008, p.94].
This was itself a quote from The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor [cf. The Chronicle of Theophanes, Anno mundi 6095-6305 (A.D. 602-813), University of Pennsylvania Press, 1982, p.61 for the year 678 AD]. The statement was in the context of the disposition of the Mardaïtes. According to Warren Treadgold,these were "Christian freebooters," i.e. something between bandits and guerrillas, who had been surrounded by the Arab conquest on Mt. Amanus between Syria and Cilicia [A History of the Byzantine State and Society, Stanford University Press, 1997, p.327]. Many of the Mardaïtes had then moved to Mt. Lebanon, where they, the Maronites, other Christian refugees, and escaped slaves began plundering the adjacent territories of the Omayyad Caliph Mu'âwiya. It sounds like Mu'âwiya was somewhat embarrassed by this activity.

Што има врска ова???

A various places at this website I have featured a quotation from the De Administrando Imperio of the Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus:

All terrible evils has Romania suffered from theArabs even until now [Greek text edited by Gy. Moravcsik, Dumbarton Oaks Texts, 1967, 2008, p.94].
This was itself a quote from The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor [cf. The Chronicle of Theophanes, Anno mundi 6095-6305 (A.D. 602-813), University of Pennsylvania Press, 1982, p.61 for the year 678 AD]. The statement was in the context of the disposition of the Mardaïtes. According to Warren Treadgold,these were "Christian freebooters," i.e. something between bandits and guerrillas, who had been surrounded by the Arab conquest on Mt. Amanus between Syria and Cilicia [A History of the Byzantine State and Society, Stanford University Press, 1997, p.327]. Many of the Mardaïtes had then moved to Mt. Lebanon, where they, the Maronites, other Christian refugees, and escaped slaves began plundering the adjacent territories of the Omayyad Caliph Mu'âwiya. It sounds like Mu'âwiya was somewhat embarrassed by this activity. In 679 Justinian IInegotiated a settlement, by which the Mardaïtes would be withdrawn in exchange for an annual tribute (216,000 solidi and some slaves and horses). Theophanes did not consider this a good deal: "The Emperor sent messengers who seized 12,000 Mardaites, mutilating the Roman state... After they were transplanted, Romania has suffered all sorts of evils at the hands of the Arabs up until the present day" [Theophanes, op. cit., p.61]. In other words, at a time of continued Roman reversals and Arab conquests, Justinian II voluntarily withdrew the autonomous forces of a successful counterattack against the heart of Omayyad power, in exchange for some nominal tribute that certainly the Omayyads soon ceased to pay

Пак ќе прашувам што има врска ова со албанците???

The Theme of Hellas (θέμα Ἑλλάδος), founded in ca. 686–689 byJustinian II, encompassing the imperial possessions of southernGreece with capital at Corinth. Justinian settled 6,500Mardaites there, who provided oarsmen and garrisons.[169]
Treadgold, Warren T. (1997), A History of the Byzantine State and Society, Stanford University Press, ISBN 0804726302

Што ме интересира мене за Грција???

32 CHANGES OF THE POPULATION.

their attention by the spectacle of desolate provinces and
§5. uninhabited cities, by forming colonies on a scale that
excites our wonder even in this age of colonisation. We
have seen that the Emperor Justinian II. transported nearly two hundred thousand Sclavonians to Asia on one occasion. His removal of the Mardaite population of Mount Lebanon was on the same extensive scale.
Future emperors encouraged emigration to as great an
extent. A colony of Persians was established on the banks of the Vardar (Axios) as early as the reign of Theophilus, (a.d. 829-842,) and it long continued to
flourish and supply recruits for a cohort of the imperial
guard, which bore the name of the Vardariots.^ Various
colonies of the different Asiatic nations who penetrated
into Europe from the north of the Black Sea in the
tenth, eleventh, and twelfth centuries, were also established in Macedonia and Thrace. In the year 106.5 a colony of Uzes was settled in Macedonia ; and this settlement
acquired so much importance that some of its chiefs rose
to the rank of senators, and filled high oificial situations
at Constantinople.

Ова веќе е сомнително....но што има врска со албанците???

2 Anna Comnena mentions colonies of Turks established in the neighbourhood of Achrida
before the reign of her father, (a.d. 1081.^) A colony
of Patzinaks was settled in the western part of Macedonia
by John II. in the year 1123;^ and colonies of Romans
were also established both in Macedonia and Thrace,
after the empire had been depopulated by the Crusaders
and Bulgarians, by John III. (Vatatzes) in the year
1243.^ All these different nations were often included under the general name of Turks ; and, indeed, most of them were descended from Turkish tribes.


THE HISTOHY OF GREECE FROM ITS CONQUEST BY THE CRUSADERS TO
ITS CONQUEST BY THE TURKS AND OF THE EMPIEE OF TREBIZOND 1204-1461

Ова е тема за потеклото на албанците, а не за потеклото на македонците......

GEORGE FINLAY
http://www02.us.archive.org/stream/cu31924028326878/cu31924028326878_djvu.txt

Ова веќе ја коментирав....

http://books.google.sk/books?id=6y3...ir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Mardaites Epirus&f=false

Фала пуно за линков, ти реков дека добар си:


Мислам дека се е јасно.....
Со тие линкови што сакаш да ја оспориш албанската автохтоност си копаш гроб на себеси....

....to be continued

те молам да не одиш офтопик.....

 

[PIRATIC]

"Albancite svetski poznati kako voinstven narod , Aratuti ili kako sebesi go vikaat "Skyptaren" ..
Albancite se beli Luge , slobodni i nezavisni .. nekolku pola milion Albanci ziveat vo toj del na Grcija koji go drzat svojot stav kako domacini na grckiot poluostrov ili delot od juzna Ilirija i Epir .
-Ahiles eden trojanski heroj , spored podatocite na Homer , negovata sila i negovata zestoka hrabrost , toj se cini deka bil vistinski Albanec .
-Posle nekoe vreme ova zemja prodolzuva da radja heroi , Pirro od Epir koj otide duri vo Italija rimjanite da gi plasi .
-Skenderbeg se rodi vo tie prostori vo XV vek koga Turcite se obidoa da go stavat pod kontrolla celiot region , sto nikogas celosno ne go postignaa .
-Da se vratime vo naseto vreme , go imame eden tret Pirro , strasniot Ali Pasha od Janina "

Ако е ова вистина тогаш Албанците се чудо на Балкану...
Од кај ги копаш овие податоци...
И дали и колку се валидни...

 

[Genti.]

Go imas linkot dole ..
Znam deka vi e cudno sto pisuvale stranskite istoricari zatoa sto ne si bil ti vo nasa koza , i ne ti bilo zabraneto nisto vo sporedba so Albancite od vremeto na osmanliite do vremeto na raspadot na SFRJ nie sme tretirani diskriminatorski , i zatoa apsolutno ne vi se cudam na vas , deka vie neznaete nitu ste mozele da znaete od nekade "koi bevme nie nekogas " .

 

[Rigel Kent]

Sto e za pofalba tretiot Pirro ?

 

[puno]

Go imas linkot dole ..
Znam deka vi cudno sto pisuvale stranskite istoricari zatoa sto ne si bil ti vo nasa koza , i ne ti bilo zabraneto nisto vo sporedba so Albancite od vremeto na osmanliite do vremeto na raspadot na SFRJ nie sme tretirani diskriminatorski , i zatoa apsolutno ne vi se cudam na vas , deka vie neznate nitu ste mozele da znaete od nekade "koi bevme nie nekogas " .

Да, имаш право, навистина не знаат, таква историја учеа, не се криви.....
Пред некој ден Пиратик уверен велеше дека албанците не граделе ниту еден објект кој е од историско важење....
--- надополнето: 17 февруари 2013 во 21:16 ---

Sto e za pofalba tretiot Pirro ?

Не е за пофалба затоа што ги подели албанците во ортодоксни и муслимани во тој регион и ја зголеми меѓусебната омраза, па и другите ортодоксни нации ги уништуваше, но се бореше и против османлиите....

 

[Genti.]

Sto e za pofalba tretiot Pirro ?

ADVISOR , Ali Pasha go znaete vie Vlasite kako drzok,los ,Islamist (mozebi?) I mnogu Albanci mislat isto taka da bidam realen sega , no ima nekoi fakti koi bea sokrieni celo vreme od grckata drzava , toa deka ne bilo bas taka kako propagiraa grcite , zatoa ako imas interes potrudise i ke najdes drugo nesto od nego ..

 

[Genti.]

Да, имаш право, навистина не знаат, таква историја учеа, не се криви.....
Пред некој ден Пиратик уверен велеше дека албанците не граделе ниту еден објект кој е од историско важење....
--- надополнето: 17 февруари 2013 во 21:16 ---

Не е за пофалба затоа што ги подели албанците во ортодоксни и муслимани во тој регион и ја зголеми меѓусебната омраза, па и другите ортодоксни нации ги уништуваше, но се бореше и против османлиите....

Ete Advisor bas ova sto go napisa PUNO e razlogot , a toa ne bilo taka .

 

[Rigel Kent]

Takov krvnik voopsto ne smee da se velici, da se spomne da, ama negovite "uspesi" se oblieni so krv .
--- надополнето: 17 февруари 2013 во 21:20 ---

ADVISOR , Ali Pasha go znaete vie Vlasite kako drzok,los ,Islamist (mozebi?) I mnogu Albanci milat isto taka da bidam realen sega , no ima nekoi fakti koi bea sokreieni od grckata drzava deka ne bilo bas taka kako propagiraa grcite , zatoa ako imas interes potrudise i ke najdes drugo nesto od nego ..

Ali Pasha gi sotre i Vlasite i Suliotite.

 

[Genti.]

Da bese taka nemase Kristianite da napisaat samo pozitivno za nego , od LORD BAYRON (go vikas noviot Pirro ) ,pa :
-Uilliam Miler
--Hygoi (Frnacus)
-Jani Vilara ,ovoj e grk i napisal posebna poezia za nego
Protosingjeli (od patrijarhanata vo Atanogora) itn ..
Samiot Marko Bocari se skoluval kaj nego , zatoa "Mnogu prasanja baraat i odgovori denes" .

 

[PIRATIC]

Според она што го имам учено Али Паша Јанински односно Али Паша Тепелена бил вазал на Османлиите во таа област и бил џелат за Ортодоксното население, а особено Власите најмногу настрадале од него ......... некаде и по интернетов имам прочитано дека сите Власи во тој регион ги уништил, некои ги убил, а поголемиот дел ги протерал !
Така да негативна личност(убиец) како Али Паша не би требало да се гледа како херој, херој на пр. бил Скендербег...