Потеклото на Албанците

Ч Е Н Т О

Методија Андонов
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Убаво е да се интересираш за историјата на својот народ, ама истата треба да ја учиш од валидни извори, а не од книги со бајки за мали деца.

Оваа книга е едно обично памфлетче нашкрабано од американски свештеник-мисионер којшто поминал 8 години во проповедање протестантска вера во Корча (1932-1940), а истото го правел и во Италија.
За твоја жал од научен аспект книжето е вредно колку и сличните такви во кои има приказни за Пепелашка. Никој ни го цитира, ниту некогаш ќе го цитира во сериозни историографски изданија.

Другите делови од книги и скенови нема да ги коментирам зашто очигледно само си ги copy-paste од некаде и немаш поим ни од кои книги се, или да наведеш автори и страни од каде се извадени, а да не збориме за превод.
Ова дрвцево го постирате неколку пати, и никако да дадете извор од каде сте го земале, или кој стои зад неговото цртање..?

Еве нешто валидно за кое ќе ти дадам точен извор, публикација и година.
Погледни тука кој е коренот на сите т.н. "словенски јазици" од групата Индо-Европски јазици:



Ова е страна од американската енциклопедија Webster од 1967-69 година, а автор на овој дел е рускиот и светски познат лингвист и филолог Вјачеслав Иванов, којшто е професор на UCLA (ако знаеш што е тоа).

http://www.slavic.ucla.edu/people/faculty/ivanov/
 

Ч Е Н Т О

Методија Андонов
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Stvarno , ajde dosta sirite propagandi tuka :D ve molam .. znaete da citate vie ? Angliski bi trebalo da znaee nekoj , ajdee citajte, uzivajte !
Значи целта ти е да спамираш до бескрај овде наместо да водиш дискусија за која најпрвин треба да дадеш ИЗВОРИ (автор, година на издание, публикација, итн.) за скенчињава што си ги лепиш овде, така?

Гледам на некој од другите постови имаше и инсинуација дека демек и Александар и древните Македонци биле всушност "Албанци"..?!? o_O
Јас имам отворено една тема овде, ај бујрум прочитај таму што пишува за малку да ти се разјаснат работиве:

Албанците се бореле ПРОТИВ Александар и Македонците
 
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Nemam sto da vi komentiram jas , osobeno na vas , a site debatiranja koi pocnale od nekoj albanec vo ovaa tema bile izbirani , clenot bil baniran i taka ke prodolzuva ova.

Znaci , od ovoj moment , jas NEMAM DA PISUVAM NITU EDEN POST VO OVAA TEMA!

A vie prodolzete da sirite propagandi , da se zamarate so nasata istorija , a ne ja gledate vasata za koja nemam "komentar" . I bi im poracal na site Albanci tuka sto se , ajde povelte gledajte gi pret'hodnite stranici ke vidite kako bile zavrseni debatite !!! OSTAJTE GI NEKAA PISUVAAT ZA NAS! ;)
 

Ч Е Н Т О

Методија Андонов
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Nemam sto da vi komentiram jas , osobeno na vas , a site debatiranja koi pocnale od nekoj albanec vo ovaa tema bile izbirani , clenot bil baniran i taka ke prodolzuva ova.

Znaci , od ovoj moment , jas NEMAM DA PISUVAM NITU EDEN POST VO OVAA TEMA!

A vie prodolzete da sirite propagandi , da se zamarate so nasata istorija , a ne ja gledate vasata za koja nemam "komentar" . I bi im poracal na site Albanci tuka sto se , ajde povelte gledajte gi pret'hodnite stranici ke vidite kako bile zavrseni debatite !!! OSTAJTE GI NEKAA PISUVAAT ZA NAS! ;)
Господинче, ти дали ќе си пишувал или не на темава е твој проблем.

И друг пат кога ќе речеш "ПИШУВАМ" седни прво стварно напиши повеќе од 5-10 реченици, а не да спамираш со скенови и сликички за кои немаш никаква информација од кои книги, писанија се, од кои автори и слично.

Убаво те замолиле да дадеш преводи на секои од тие скенови, па да продискутираме, да видиме што е што. Арно ама ти си продолжи со спамирање без усул и ич не ме чуди што те избришале.
 
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Nemam sto da vi komentiram jas , osobeno na vas , a site debatiranja koi pocnale od nekoj albanec vo ovaa tema bile izbirani , clenot bil baniran i taka ke prodolzuva ova.

Znaci , od ovoj moment , jas NEMAM DA PISUVAM NITU EDEN POST VO OVAA TEMA!

A vie prodolzete da sirite propagandi , da se zamarate so nasata istorija , a ne ja gledate vasata za koja nemam "komentar" . I bi im poracal na site Albanci tuka sto se , ajde povelte gledajte gi pret'hodnite stranici ke vidite kako bile zavrseni debatite !!! OSTAJTE GI NEKAA PISUVAAT ZA NAS! ;)
Не се замараме со вашата историја. Ако добро приметуваш (чисто се сомневам) она со кое се занимаваме е само и само нашата историја. Тоа што вие си ја присвојувате нашата историја е она против кое што ние се бориме. Многу малку пишуваме за историјата на Кавкаска Албанија. Можеби треба да пишуваме и за неа во посебна тема па да си научите за вашата историја, а не да ја “крадете“ нашата...
 
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Зошто албанците се автохтони?
- имаат земено грчки зборови (помалку затоа што тој диалект кој бил во контакт со грците веќе се асимилирани)
- имаат земено латински зборови од римската империја
- имаат земено словенски зборови од словенските царства
- имаат земено турски зборови од турската империја
- повеќе од 30% од зборовите се оригинални кои не можат да се најдат во ниту една друга нација.
- албанскиот јазик нема директна врска со ниту еден друг јазик има само позајмување зборови, а спаѓа во индоевр. јазици
- Сите западни стручњаци албанците ги трасираат како автохтони на балканот, има заблуди дали се илири, траки или дако моези
--- надополнето: 28 март 2012 во 09:51 ---
еве неколку од нив
16)Edison L.Clark
He writes:
Albanians, Arnauts as the turks calls them, or Shqiptars,
live in the territory of ancient Epirus and in the territory of illyrians in East Macedonia.
From Montenegro(North) till the Ambracian Golf (South).
He continues :
Ancient Epirots are different from Ancient Greeks, like Albanians from todays Greeks.Epirots and Illyrians where neighbour tribes , but of the same blood, which spoke different dialects of the same language.
18)Scanderbeg
A letter that send to Prince of Tarranto , Giovani Antonio , Wrote:
"My Forefathers were Epirotes , from which Pyrrhus rose who won the Romans"
Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro (Pyrrhus the Great), who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.
I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander
the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?
18) Martin P. N. Nilson,”Studien z.Geschichte d’alten Epiros”, Lun, 1909
Epirus in every Aspect is non Greek
19) Leon the Clever ( X century a.d)
The inhabitants of Epirus are Albanians
20)Mihal Ducasnantari (Byzantine Cronist of XIV century)
"The ruler of Janina Thomas Preliubovic , the so called "ALBANOKTONOS" (albanians killer) ,
was Clearing Janina from Albanians , in a way that , he was sending Gjin Bua shpata Baskets with Albanian Eyes...
21) Lord Byron (Childe Harold's)
XLII
Morn dawns; and with it stern Albania's hills,
Dark Suli's rocks, and Pindus' inland peak,
http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/byron/childe1.html
23) Karl Marx (The Eastern Question , p.18)
With Constantinople, she stands on the threshold of the Mediterranean; with
Durazzo and the Albanian coast from Antivari to Arta, she is in the very center ....
http://books.google.com/books?id=SZX...8sQO4#PPA18,M1
24) Henry Holland
I shall mention a few particulars as the gulf of Arta may be considered the outlet for the southern of Albania
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ul0... Arta#PPA84,M1
25) The pro-Greek historian Spiro Muselimi,
in his book "Historical Sight Through Thesprotia", edited in Joannina on 1974,
"The bishop of Thesprotia in the year 1870 translated some parts of Bible into Albanian, as the people of orthodox faith of the region did not understand any word in Greek".
26 The census held by the Turkish Administration in 1910 established that there were 83.000 orthodox and muslim Albanians in the region.
27) The demographic map of the British military mission sent to the British government
in London indicates that on the eve of the second World War, %75 of Chameria's population was Albanian.
28) Catholic Encyclopedia of 1900
Albania
The ancient Epirus and Illyria, is the most western land occupied by the Turks in Europe.
Its extreme length is about 290 miles, and its breadth from forty to ninety miles.
On the west and southwest it is bounded by the Adriatic and the Ionian seas.
It is generally divided into three regions: Upper Albania, from the Montenegrin
frontier to the river Shkumbi; Lower Albania, or Epirus, from the Shkumbi to the Gulf of Arta;
and Eastern Albania, to the east of the Schar-Dagh chain....
After Scutari, Yanina is the largest and most interesting town of modern Albania.
Near it are the ruins of the temple of Dodona,
the cradle of pagan civilization in Greece.........
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01253b.htm
29) Sathos (Greek Historian)
"In Middle ages Thesprotia is referred as being inhabited by Albanian population"
30) Golubinski
The most famous and most learned champion of these reforms was
Maximus the Greek, born at Arta, in Albania, and educated in Italy. He entered
monastic life on Mount Athos, and in 1518 repaired to Russia.........
http://www.literatures.info/russian_literature.htm
31) Stefanos Skyloudis (letter to Greek foreign minister in 18/02/1877)
" .....Albanians without a writing language ,undeveloped education , without a definite religion ,
will not preserve for to long time their nationality , they will gradually assimilated from the Greeks of Epirus"
READ THIS BOOK VERY USEFUL (ALI PASHA BIOGRAPHY) from 1823
http://books.google.com/books?id=gsk...banian#PPP1,M2
+ The American review of reviews, Volume 47, Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913
"These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians."
... and hundreds of thousands of other books, that describes Epirotes as Illyrian. Thracian and Illyrian (who formed the Macedonians), are represented today by the Albanians. Attention, all these aforementioned native cultures (known by one name as Pelasgian), for Greeks were barbaric, or, different from them. http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=172
Also, in this document below, under the permission of the Greek Parliament, in 1867, is accepted that albanians are descent of Epirotes and Macedonians too.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228065_206866199344527_204073476290466_614032_1201 218_n.jpg
+ Elgin Marble Argument in a New Light, by MICHAEL KIMMELMAN - Published: June 23, 2009
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
http://macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nytimes_Elgin-Marble.png
+ The races of European Turkey
Edson Lyman Clark
Dodd, Mead & co., 1878
"Pott deem it clear that the Albanian language is the true representative of the ancient Illyrian. The Epirots and Illyrians were neighbor and kindred tribes, speaking different dialects of the same language." p.169
Bulletin de l'Institut égyptien
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/265182_196361530411624_100001133356751_479576_2768 199_n.jpg
Page 45
It will be easier to confirm our opinion on the origin of Albanian Pelasgian, since this language is kept constant in his greatest traits over the centuries until today, according to historical facts.
As already predicted the German scientist Muller, Albanian will give us the key to the solution of several problems related to linguistic and ethnographic literature Greco-Latin.
Appointed Pelaka Skype or by Albanians living in Epirus, Albania, Macedonia and Italy, Arber by Albanians in Greece, this dialect is formed from a few thousand words and monosyllables bisyllabic, roots dry and arid without prefixes or suffixes some exceptions.
Excluding neopelasgian words, Latin or Greek, Turkish, Slavic or other, the skeleton appears in its nakedness idiom hard, almost eolodorien or wind, approaching all-in-fact of dialects in the epigrams etched old, or sung by the rhapsodies and Aedes oldest Greek.
Page 49
Rhapsodies in Homer, despite all the corrections implied by the Athenians, we find many words in use among the Homeric Albanians, which argues for the antiquity of the Albanians.
Page 57
The Albanians finally mourn their dead in the Homeric way women (date, the Albanian-oAoXu xXatmoi;, oXoXi5Ço>), repeating the words izi, oïzi = black, unhappy.
Homer used this word once oizôc Curiously, the word zi, Zia returned to each moment in the archaic inscription found on Lemnos, cited by the Honourable Dr. Apostolides.
This word means in Albanian sepulchral still mourning and phrase na zia erd wind that we came into mourning.
What makes some scientists argue that the language of the inscription resembles Albanian, this relic of Pelasgian, especially as the island of Lemnos was home exclusively to the Pelasgians until the time of Miltiades, who occupied
Conclusion:
The inclusion of the island of Lemnos has been writen in language Pelasgian, the Pelasgians were not completely absorbed and they are back with their descendants, shqiptar or Albanians, as well as history and linguistic prov
+ Catholic world, Volume 113
Paulist Fathers, Making of America Project
Paulist Fathers, 1921
The Pelasgians occupied the Balkan Peninsula, and were divided into several tribes. Those forming the Kingdom of Illyria gave much trouble to the Romans, but were finally subdued.
[…]
Until recently, it was thought that the Macedonians and Epirots were two tribes of Greek people, but now is the belief of scholars that neither of this was Greeks, but the forefathers of Albanians.
p.90
+ Ridpath's history of the world (1897)
Ridpath, John Clark, 1840-1900 Volume: 2
New York, Merrill & Baker
We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
[...]
Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
[...]
This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
[...]
Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
Ill, Yll, Yj, Yje, Yjnor, Hyjnor, Hyjn, Hyjnia, Hyjneron ...
YJ (stars): even this word has been found in other languages, unless the Albanian, also being much common one in epigrafic documents of the antiquity, from the Aegean to the Atlantic. YJ, YJNOR, HYJNERON are coming from terms from the pelasgo-illirico-Etruscan. In fact, they are found some in abundance in their registrations, but today they are used alone in the Albanian language. From this it can be deduced that the several shapes of YJ could be of origin proto-Indo-European. And it can be arrived to this conclusion taking in consideration all the other Indo-European languages that do not call “YJE” the stars, but: Sanscrito (Astra), Italian (astro, stella), Spanish (Estrella), Portuguese (Estrela), English (Stars), Greek (Aster) Persian (Setareh), German (Stern).
eyhe----> means to pray to the Hy(Deity)
Ἀγρόται Ἀλεξίων εὐχάν----Agrote Aleksion lutemi o hy
Ἀμμίλα Ἀρτάμιτι Ἀγρότᾳ εὐχάν---Amila Artamiti Agrota e hyan
The standart translation for the verb e hyinoia is to make a favour or to be blessed by Gods
But it's very clear that the exact translation is : deify by the Gods, blessed by the Gods.
The meaning "favour" is an altered one or a secondary meaning very close to the original which is the Albanian one.
--- надополнето: 28 март 2012 во 10:13 ---
еве уште странски научници

Cent. XVI; XVII; XVIII
1509 Eneo Silvio Piccolomini - 'Cosmograhia Pii Papae in Asiase & Europe [...]'
1555 Konrad Gesner Schweizer - “Mithridas sive de differentiis linguarum”
1587 Andrea de Poza Spanierin - “Albaner nannte man früher Epiroten”
1599 G. Skaliger Franzose - 'Langues europeennes, “die epirotische Sprache von früher ist die albanische Sprache von heute'
1695 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - 'Correspondence on the Albanian Language';
1646-1716 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - “Albanische Sprache ist die alte illyrische
1769 Johan Ihre - 'Glossarium Suiogothicum'
1774 Johann Thunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europaeischen Völker'
1777 Niccolò Chetta - 'Tesoro di notizie su de’ Macedoni'
1746 - 1770 Hans Tunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker “Albaner sind die direkten Nachfolger der Illyrer und wurden nicht romanisiert ”
1744 - 1803 Johann G.Herde Deutscher - 'Ideen zur Philosophie der Geschichte der Menschheit'
1784 Johann G.Herde Deutsche - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1751-1819 Daniel Farlati dhe Jakob Koleti - Enciklopedia "Illyricum Sacrum";
1755-1826 Conrad Malte-Bruun Däne - ' Annales des Voyages de la Geographie et de l`Historie' / Paris 1809 - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1790-1866 Jakob Falmerajer - “Das albanische Element in Griechenland”; “Besteht eine Verbindung der Albaner und Illyrern"
1794-1881 Ami Bue - “Verbindung der Illyrer mit Albanern”
Cent. XIX
1806 Johann Christoph Adelung - 'Mithridates oder allgemeine Sprachenkunde [...]'
1807 Angelo Masci - 'Discorso sull’ origine, costume e stato attuale della nazione Albanese'
1811-1869 Johann Georg von Hahn - “Die vorfahren der Albaner sind eindeutig die Illyrer”
1812 Conrad Malte-Brun - 'Precis de la geographie universelle, [...]'
1814-1866 H.Hekard - 'Historia et Description de la Haute' - Albanie ou Guegarie “Illyrer Vorfahren der heutigen Albaner”
1816 Franz Bopp - 'Über das Conjugationsystem der Sanskritsprache [...]'
{1854 Franz Bopp - 'Ueber das Albanesische [...]'}
1817-1903 Teodor Mommsen - “Römische Geschichte”; “Die überlebenden der Illyrer sind die Albaner”
--- надополнето: 28 март 2012 во 10:43 ---
cedo moe, imalo albanci vo azerbejxhan e? i kako dojdovme tuka? ne teleportiraa site do eden, do you actually know how stupid you sound? ne sum slusnal za ova propaganda se dodeka ne se registrirav vo forumot, dete, tradicii ti se vikaat, iljada godini tradicii, obicaii, ova e toa sto ne pravi nas razilicni od vas slovenite vo balkanotm i sto ne spoi nas so ilirite i pelazgite, a sto ve spoi vas so makedoncite? jazikot? ako sakate vo nesto da veruvate so sila (deka opsto se znae deka ste "narod" star samo 50 godini, mix na bugari i srbi, ne ni se cudam sto vo istok se zboruva bugarski a vo kumanovo srpski), veruvajte, no ne ni da pomislite da ne terate i nas drugite da veruvame vo sranja, posto znaeme mnogu dobro nie koi ste i od koga ste i od koj ste (tito), se fakas za nas? koga ke imate jazik i obicai sto mu dolikuvaat na NAROD, togas ke zboruvame, mada toa ke bide posle 2000 godini, i togas mozebi i ja ako ke bidam poznat za nesto golemo, ke me vikaat makedonec.
 
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Прво, кажи ми од кои форуми ги копаш глупостиве, оти сам не ги наоѓаш, неповрзани ти се со темава. Потоа, за она што јас го зборувам од лингвистички аспект ѕирни ги: Goodwin, Chadwick, Howard, Weir Smyth, Greenough, Bach, Kittredge, D'Oog, Charlton, Sage, Mahoney, Liddell, Scott, Rydberg-Cox, Loyd, Blass, Schwyzer... Овие дечки се врвот во мојата струка, а како што можеш да видиш, меѓу нив нема стручњаци од Балканов. Не велам дека кај нас нема стручњаци, туку ги сметам како неутрални во случајов.

Велиш дека Албанците се постари од Македонците? Па, зошто сте бегале `ко глувци од Филип Втори? Ве измалтил уште во неговата рана младост. Ако сте биле Ab origines зошто сте немале каде да се засолните туку сте бегале, сте се повлекувале, накај морето? Или во пештери сте живееле?

Името Албанија,Албанци, Илирија, Илири кое го спомнуваат античките автори не се однесува на вас. Тоа е и проблемот со темава. Се добива впечаток дека вие сте овдешни, а не дојденци, што претставува грубо менување на историјата. Вие не сте од овде, не сте ab origines. И картата која ти ја прикажав во мојот претходен пост го потврдува тоа. Вие се обидувате да се претставите од овде, бидејќи секој има потреба да припаѓа некаде.
Ke te citiram ovdeka da ne mu ja "unistam" temata na covekot :)
Kako , kade pobegale Albancite od Filip Vtori ?
Imas nekoj dokaz ili tuku taka " ko mu ide "
Izgleda deka ne si go procital linkot , ama aj :
By Joseph Ward Swain,
Terrot Reaveley
Glover
Published 1950
Harper


January 12, 2007 - Leave a Response
By Leslie White Hopkinson
Published 1918
Houghton Mifflin company
259 pages
I kakva logika sega ima Filip Vtori da ratuval protiv Albancite ?



I ne mi veli "dojdenici" sme , barem nemoj na prazno bez dokazi , za razlika od tebe jas pak ke te potsetam deka sme od tuka i ne sme "dojdeni" .. cekam i od tebe isti dokazi da vidime koj e postar i koj e dojden , dokazite sami zborat :

Godina 1257
George Acropolites:
An Albanian Uprising
Historian George Acropolites (1217-1282) was the tutor of Emperor Theodore II Lascaris (r. 1254-1258) and later became rector of the university in Constantinople. His 'Chronicle' of the Nicaean Empire, based to a good degree on first-hand information and personal observations, covers the years 1203-1261

When the two promised to carry out our decisions, I left them and hastened to Ohrid with my retinue to find out whether I would be able to put the situation in Albania back in order. I resolved to send the imperial sewer, Isaac Nestongus, to Albania and gave the usual orders for him to assume the supreme command. I was well aware of the fact that I could make such decisions without the slightest danger, i.e. that I could replace any of the regional tax and government officials, military commanders or local authorities at whim. I then decided to set off for Albania myself to bring the situation in that country back under control and to find out what the sewer had actually accomplished. On my departure from Albania, I took the sewer and all the forces with me because the Albanian people had acted in advance and had already carried through with their uprising. They had all defected to the turncoat Despot Michael. Since I could see for myself that everything was in turmoil, I left Dibra, where I had spent more days than necessary and where the enemy had encircled us, and took Ohrid by storm with several members of my retinue. In Ohrid I left the sewer to guard the castle and, marching through Prespa and a place called Siderokastron, reached Prilep. There I had the impression of having arrived in a safe haven.
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts15/AH1257.html


Godina 1328, 1332, 1336
John Cantacuzene:
Unruly Nomads Pay Homage to the Emperor
Typical of the many short references to the Albanians in Byzantine chronicles is the following text by the Emperor John VI Cantacuzene (r. 1347-1355), whose 'History' covers the years 1320-1356. Here as in other texts, the Albanian tribes are described as wild and unruly nomads living in mountainous regions in the summer months and migrating to the lowlands in the winter months.
While the emperor was spending about eight days in Achrida (Ohrid), the Albanian nomads living in the region of Deabolis (Devoll) appeared before him, as well as those from Koloneia (Kolonja) and those from the vicinity of Ohrid (1). They paid homage to the emperor and willingly offered him their services. Those who lived farther away on the borders of the Byzantine Empire were commanded by letters from the emperor to hasten to Thessalonika in order to pay homage, which they did a short time later.
While the emperor was staying in Thessaly (2), the unruly Albanians living in the Thessalian mountains appeared before him who, according to their tribal leaders, are called Malakasians, Buians and Mesarites and whose numbers reach 12,000. They paid homage to the emperor and promised to serve him, for they were afraid of being annihilated by the Byzantines at the onset of winter, living as they do, not in towns, but in the mountains and in inaccessible regions. Since they must abandon these regions in the winter due to the cold and snow, which falls in incredible amounts in such vicinities, they believed that they would easily fall prey to them.

Godina 1570
Anonymous:
A Physical Description of Albania and the Defence of Ulcinj
The name of the author of this report, first published by Sime Ljubic in 1880, is unknown, but he was probably one of the Venetian proveditors of Kotor. He seems, at any rate, to have visited many areas of Albania personally. His report provides much information, including many useful details, on the state of a country firmly now under Turkish rule.
The country of Albania is that which ancient authors called Macedonia,( i.e. only a part of Macedonia since the latter contains many lands and regions which are not Albanian). Albania itself is the part which has the Adriatic Sea as its western border. The said land of Albania extends from the north southwards from between the towns of Antivari (Bar) and Dulcigno (Ulcinj), settlements which are a mere fifteen miles apart. As such, Bar constitutes the end of Dalmatia and Ulcinj the beginning of Albania.http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1570.html


Za linguitsika uste ednas , deka osven zborovi ne gleam nitu eden FAKT kako ovie naprimer :

Robert d’ANGÉLY
ENIGMA

PARIS
MCMLXII
Stranica 17

Prevod na albanski jazik

1) E bënnë ctatën, me nê prindretë, Pulenidha Mullijesi dhe Daparai Pulenidha Purihimetësi:

2) Një njerëzi për gratë e tyre dhe djemtë.

3) Po të jet se viret (njeri) në dhê te ky varr, bërë (prej) neje, t’u bjerë pun’e madhe dhe hall e mi halle: ose dha: < (kaqë).

Str,23




1) E bënnë ctatun me ne prinjatet



ELPETI (vehtë) vehtes d(he) djemëvet.

2) E bleu Akuti me të. ....itn..
http://www.worldcat.org/title/enigme-t-4-de-lempire-ottoman-des-albanais-de-lepire/oclc/716417209&referer=brief_results
 
H

HITCH

Гостин
Прво, Илирите не се Епирци! Илирите живеат на северниот ден на балканскиот полуостров, еве на карта да видиш:



Епирците живееле долу на југ, еве ти карта и тоа да видиш:



Сега сам провери оддалеченост! Патем, рече дека Македонците не ги млателе оние чија историја и идентитет го крадете? Баш да видиме!!!

Philip came to the throne suddenly and unexpectedly in 359, when Perdiccas was killed meeting an Illyrian invasion. The Illyrians prepared to close in; the Paeonians were raiding from the north, and two claimants to the throne were supported by foreign powers. In this crisis Philip showed a good sense of priorities by buying off his dangerous neighbours and, with a treaty, ceding Amphipolis to Athens. He used the time gained in military preparations. The army that later conquered Persia was developed all through his reign, but the decisive innovations in arms—the sarissa, a pike nearly half as long again as the spear of the Greeks—tactics, and training belong probably to this first year. In 358 he invaded Paeonia, and then he defeated the Illyrians decisively, in a battle that already suggests a master of war. The next year his marriage with Olympias, the Molossian princess of Epirus (the mother of Alexander the Great), helped to stabilize his western frontier.
Еве ти линк од THE LATIN LIBRARY од горе наведениов цитат.

Одиме понатаму...

Филип втори ве бркал `ко глувци прв пат:
Ова го кажува Диодор Сицилијанецот:
16.4.3 - And since the Illyrians were still left as enemies, he was ambitious to defeat them in war also. So, having quickly called an assembly and exhorted his soldiers for the war in a fitting speech, he led an expedition into the Illyrian territory, having no less than ten thousand foot-soldiers and six hundred horsemen. 16.4.4 - Bardylis, the king of the Illyrians, having learned of the presence of the enemy, first dispatched envoys to arrange for a cessation of hostilities on the condition that both sides remained possessed of the cities which they then controlled. But when Philip said that he indeed desired peace but would not, however, concur in that proposal unless the Illyrians should withdraw from all the Macedonian cities, the envoys returned without having accomplished their purpose, and Bardylis, relying upon his previous victories and the gallant conduct of the Illyrians, came out to meet the enemy with his army; and he had ten thousand picked infantry soldiers and about five hundred cavalry.
16.4.5 - When the armies approached each other and with a great outcry clashed in the battle, Philip, commanding the right wing, which consisted of the flower of the Macedonians serving under him, ordered his cavalry to ride past the ranks of the barbarians and attack them on the flank, while he himself falling on the enemy in a frontal assault began a bitter combat.
16.4.6 - But the Illyrians, forming themselves into a square, courageously entered the fray. And at first for a long while the battle was evenly poised because of the exceeding gallantry displayed on both sides, and as many were slain and still more wounded, the fortune of battle vacillated first one way then the other, being constantly swayed by the valorous deeds of the combatants; but later as the horsemen pressed on from the flank and rear and Philip with the flower of his troops fought with true heroism, the mass of the Illyrians was compelled to take hastily to flight.
16.4.7 - When the pursuit had been kept up for a considerable distance and many had been slain in their flight, Philip recalled the Macedonians with the trumpet and erecting a trophy of victory buried his own dead, while the Illyrians, having sent ambassadors and withdrawn from all the Macedonian cities, obtained peace. But more than seven thousand Illyrians were slain in this battle.

Извадок од книгата Philip II of Macedonia: Greater Than Alexander - Richard A. Gabriel:
The Illyrians ... threw themselfs into the engagement with all their might. At first the battle was equally balanced for a long time because of the surpassing valor of both sides, and, while many were killed and still more wounded, the battle inclined first one way and than the other, as bravery of the contestants caused the outcome to swing backwards and forwards.


Еве ти доказ дека сте бегале како глувци втор пат:
Филип петти:
Philip had long had his thoughts fixed upon Lissus and Lissus founded by Dionysius of Syracuse, B. C. 385. See Diod. Sic. 15. 13. its citadel; and, being anxious to become master of those places, he started with his army, and after two days' march got through the pass and pitched his camp on the bank of the river Ardaxanus, not far from the town. He found on surveying the place that the fortifications of Lissus, both on the side of the sea and of the land, were exceedingly strong both by nature and art; and that the citadel, which was near it, from its extraordinary height and its other sources of strength, looked more than any one could hope to carry by storm. He therefore gave up all hope of the latter, but did not entirely despair of taking the town. He observed that there was a space between Lissus and the foot of the Acrolissus which was fairly well suited for making an attempt upon the town. He conceived the idea therefore of bringing on a skirmish in this space, and then employing a strategem suited to the circumstances of the case. Having given his men a day for rest; and having in the course of it addressed them in suitable words of exhortation; he hid the greater and most effective part of his light-armed troops during the night in some woody gulleys, close to this space on the land side; and next morning marched to the other side of the town next the sea, with his peltasts and the rest of his light-armed. Having thus marched round the town, and arrived at this spot, he made a show of intending to assault it at that point. Now as Philip's advent had been no secret, a large body of men from the surrounding country of Illyria had flocked into Lissus; but feeling confidence in the strength of the citadel, they had assigned a very moderate number of men to garrison it. As soon therefore as the Macedonians approached, The Acrolissus taken by a feint, andLissusafterwards. they began pouring out of the town, confident in their numbers and in the strength of the places. The king stationed his peltasts on the level ground, and ordered the light-armed troops to advance towards the hills and energetically engage the enemy. These orders being obeyed, the fight remained doubtful for a time; but presently Philip's men yielded to the inequality of the ground, and the superior number of the enemy, and gave way. Upon their retreating within the ranks of the peltasts, the sallying party advanced with feelings of contempt, and having descended to the same level as the peltasts joined battle with them. But the garrison of the citadel seeing Philip moving his divisions one after the other slowly to the rear, and believing that he was abandoning the field, allowed themselves to be insensibly decoyed out, in their confidence in the strength of their fortifications; and thus, leaving the citadel by degrees, kept pouring down by bye-ways into the lower plain, under the belief that they would have an opportunity of getting booty and completing the enemy's discomfiture. Meanwhile the division, which had been lying concealed on the side of the mainland, rose without being observed, and advanced at a rapid pace. At their approach the peltasts also wheeled round and charged the enemy. On this the troops from Lissus were thrown into confusion, and, after a straggling retreat, got safely back into the town; while the garrison which had abandoned the citadel got cut off from it by the rising of the troops which had been lying in ambush. The result accordingly was that what seemed hopeless, namely the capture of the citadel, was effected at once and without any fighting; while Lissus did not fall until next day, and then only after desperate struggles, the Macedonians assaulting with vigour and even terrific fury. Thus Philip having, beyond all expectation, made himself master of these places, reduced by this exploit all the neighbouring populations to obedience; so much so that the greater number of the Illyrians voluntarily surrendered their cities to his protection; for it had come to be believed that, after the storming of such strongholds as these, no fortification and no provision for security could be of any avail against the might of Philip.
--- надополнето: 28 април 2012 во 13:33 ---
Godina 1570
Anonymous:
A Physical Description of Albania and the Defence of Ulcinj
The name of the author of this report, first published by Sime Ljubic in 1880, is unknown, but he was probably one of the Venetian proveditors of Kotor. He seems, at any rate, to have visited many areas of Albania personally. His report provides much information, including many useful details, on the state of a country firmly now under Turkish rule.
The country of Albania is that which ancient authors called Macedonia,( i.e. only a part of Macedonia since the latter contains many lands and regions which are not Albanian). Albania itself is the part which has the Adriatic Sea as its western border. The said land of Albania extends from the north southwards from between the towns of Antivari (Bar) and Dulcigno (Ulcinj), settlements which are a mere fifteen miles apart. As such, Bar constitutes the end of Dalmatia and Ulcinj the beginning of Albania.http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1570.html

The country of Albania is that which ancient authors called Macedonia?! :pos:Што зборуваш бе?!
 
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HITCH
Fala na Gospod , vo nesto sme ednakvi "Epircite ne bile Iliri " toa e tocno po mitolgija znaci tamu ne bilo Ilirija
a potvrdeno e deka Epircite se Albanci , toa sto go rekov znaci vo drugata tema , "ne sme samo Iliri tuku podlaboko "
Dokazi za ova ako vi treba slucajno deka toa e taka ?
Slabi dokazi imas , slabi zajtovi za Filip Vtori barem sprema moite ednakvi na nula , ama aj ..
Sega znaci prema tvoite postovi ispadnavme po poteklo "ILIRI" , ajde bidi masko i razberi go ova :)
Tamu pisuvas deka sme bile "Divo Pleme" ( pred se bi se posramotel taka da go narekuva javno eden cel narod) , posle toa toj drugiot kolega/i
ubeden deka sme od Kavkaz sto znaci vie samite ste kontradiktorni , a nie samo da gleame od strana i koj ke ne ponizuva sto e mozno poveke ,
a realno , barem kako dokazuvaat site naj- naj svetski univerziteti , samo za nas se pisuva deka sme starosedelci , i nikako gospodine Linguist
da gi komentiras starite transkripti koi svetot odamnaa toa go kazaa :)
Ima uste nekolku takvi , pak , vi trebaat slucajno ?
Toa na kraj sto go pisuva "sto zboruvas be" , ne zboruvam jas , zborat drugite zatoa obratise na niv i dokazi ja tvojata autoktonost pred tie godini sto jas go dokazav , mislam ako tvrdite seuste deka nie sme vo vasa zemja , togas cekam argumenti od tebe da gi unistis tie od Genti ?
Ne e toa , jas od Kavkaz , jas Divo pleme , a samo jas dokazuvam , KAJ SE VASITE DOKAZI ?
Za kraj , deka rekov porano , ne se samo tie istoricari sto go povrzuvaat Aleksandar M. so Albancite tuku ima uste duplo tolku od toj prosliot link ,
Gleja kako pisuva :
Civiliziraniot svet ne smee da dozvoli na potomcite na ilirite , na Pelazgite da izceznuvaat , od nivna rasa se rodi PIRRO OD EPIR ,Aleksandar Veliki , Konstantin , PAPA XI , KRISPI , MRAKO BOTCARI ("Grcki heroj :) ) itn..
Mislam deka go prevedov dovolno dobro deka germanskiot mi e podobra strana ?
Autor: Joseph F.Gould, Elbowoods North Dakota
Volume: 85-86
New York : S.W. Benedict
72
 
H

HITCH

Гостин
Диодор не е веродостоен извор? Линковите со картите и електронската латинска библиотека не се веродостојни??? Знаеш кој е основач на електронскава библиотека?
Ти дадов доказ дека немате врска со античкиот период. Кажи ми ако сакаш тоа да биде на друг јазик освен англиски, ќе ти приложам докази. Само има еден проблем, ти англиски не разбираш, а ќе си преведувал од латински или старогрчки... :pos:

Имаш еден проблем во толкувањето на историјата, а тоа е затоа што не знаеш што читаш и од каде читаш. Македонците никој не го спори како Ab origines на Балканскиов полуостров, НИКОЈ! Напротив, за нашето постоење укажуваат и самите Грци. Не знам од каде ти е оваа глупост, дека вас ве прогласиле за Ab origines, а нас за дојденци. Филиповците на темава ти ги приложив исчклучиво како доказ дека вие не сте одовде, а се докажува со фактот дека кога Филип ви го задал последниот удар, вие не сте ја познавале територијата и сте се повлекувале исклучиво кон морето, односно патот по кој сте дошле.

Е, сега не сте Илири, туку велиш дека сте Епирци, ајде и ова да го ѕирнеме.
Ајде да видиме за Епир нешто повеќе што треба да се знае. Епир освен територијално нема никаква друга врска со Албанија, што покажува дека е вештачки споено. Албанија го има Северен Епир, а не целиот Епир:

„The term "Northern Epirus" started to be used by Greeks in 1913, upon the creation of the Albanian State following the Balkan Wars, and the incorporation into the latter of territory that was regarded by many Greeks as geographically, historically, culturally, and ethnologically connected to the Greek region of Epirus since antiquity.“
Извор.

Нема староалбански јазик на оваа територија за која ти зборуваш:
“Speakers of these various Greek dialects settled different parts of Greece at different times during the Middle Bronze Age, with one group, the “northwest” Greeks, developing their own dialect and peopling central Epirus. This was the origin of the Molossian or Epirotic tribes.
.”E.N.Borza “In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon” (revisededition, 1992), page 62

А, Македонците имале свој јазик, различен од грчкиот, затоа се Барбари, оние кои брборат неразбирливо, односно зборуваат неразбирливо, нејасно... Самите Грци го потврдуваат тоа!

Ова е значењето на брбливец, ѕирни ги сликите долу.

Уште малку да се објаснуваме:
„The Epirotes, who may fairly be considered as Greeks by blood, long maintained a rugged independence under native chiefs, who were little more than leaders in war.“
- A Manual of Greek Antiquities Book by Percy Gardner, Frank Byron Jevons; Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1895, page 8
Како да бидете Епирци кога немате врска со ова???

Ако сакаш имат уште материјали дека не постои староалбански на оваа територија.
П.С. Таму темата е поставена со цел да се покаже како пробувате да украдете, да присвоите туѓ дел од историјата, она што сега и ти го правиш. Според вашата физиономија и говор вие не сте до ова поднебје, немате никакви докази.
П.П.С. Ти пишувам од кои книги и каде да го бараш она што го пишувам и затоа не се обидувај да ми ги презентираш твоите ливчиња како некаков доказ дека сте овдешни.
 

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Franciscus Blanchus 1635
Znaci pred 400 godini skoro , deka ne prais razlika so srednovekovnite filolozi
i ovie "grckite"propagatori od ovoj vek , zato ti spomnan :
Pras sekoj Albanec uste denes , dali go razbera sekoj Albanec ovoj jazik od epirotite :



--- надополнето: 29 април 2012 во 13:52 ---
Nemam vreme sega .. za Epir ima mnogu da se pisuva , i muzika , pesni , Oro sve dokumentirano deka samo Albancite go igraat ai samoto ime EPIR e dokaz na nasiot jazik , inaku neam vreme i ne mi gi spomni denesnite "Grci" vo istorija na antikata , deka ke ispadnes smesen i pored falsifakitite . imas od mene 3-5 stranici ponazad deka i tie priznaa u youtube..
Uste ednas , denesnite "grci" i tie postaire se sosema nesto drugo , samo imeto im e ukradeno , a stari grcki jazik e samo jazik ne i narod "stragrcki " , ke dokazam pokasno ili utre ..
 

Bratot

Стоик и Машкртник!
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А вие сте Илири :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: ? па да имавте толку години цивилизација немаше да бидете такви дивурии ваљда :tapp: нема везе ..
Членов е баниран на недела дена поради провокациите и навредите на етничка основа.
 

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