ПЕЛАЗГИ/ ИЛИРИ/ МАКЕДОНЦИ/ TRAKI/ FRIGI/ АЛБАНЦИ

[PIRRO]

pa,da bese vistinski ilir,ke razberese..
vaka..
aj,eve,za da razberes..
klikni
ima i sareni slikicki

OК. Сакаш да кажеш на сајтов дека денешните македонци се различни од грците (генетски)... па тоа цел свет го знае... денешните македонци на Р.Македонија се со КАРПАТСКИ ГЕНИ :pos2:

 

[TpH_Bo_OkO]

денешните македонци на Р.Македонија се со КАРПАТСКИ ГЕНИ

Да. Има присуство од некои 14%...Наспроти 90% чист кавказки ген кај албанците. Назад бре у Азербејџан!

 

[Sturmgewehr]

pa,da bese vistinski ilir,ke razberese..
vaka..
aj,eve,za da razberes..
klikni
ima i sareni slikicki

a ne vide deka i Macedonians pisuva tamu vo Subsaharski.

Tesko ti e tebe da svastis

Normalno deka i Grcite i Subsaharcite ke imat takvi geni tie geni se Originalni od Bela rasa koa Grcite i Albancite MIgrirale od Balknot kon Istok i kon Jusg vie pasevte kozi zad Karpati, normalno i tie imat poosto imat mnogu alsimilirani Pelazgi tamu o Anavence tesko ti e da svatis.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

Да. Има присуство од некои 14%...Наспроти 90% чист кавказки ген кај албанците. Назад бре у Азербејџан!

Тоа дека сите ние имаме со Грците и ро Ароманите и со Румунците исти гени покажува дека сме автхтони бе пиле а тоа дека ти немаш исти гени покажува дека идеш од Зад Карпати тоа ти го покажува покажува иста сичност со Украинците и сите козари околу Украина и Русија ајде Мрсшшш зад Карпати. :baeh:

 

[Силен]

Znaci se stigna do 33 strana na PNP (Politichko Nacionalna Propaganda). Bravo, samo napred!

 

[fanatic]

А ТИ fanatic СФАЌАШ СЕГА КОЈ Е ДОЈДЕН А КОЈ Е ДРЕВЕН НАРОД НА БАЛКАНОТ ?...

АМА ТИ СИ МАКЕДОНЕЦ !?... СО ПОТЕКЛО ОД АНТИЧКИТЕ МАКЕДОНЦИ...

Тогаш Албанец/Арванит ќе да си, мислам по националност, или Грк ... ГАЛИБА !

Vidi neznam zasto Kaplan Resuli nego prifakjate ,coekot ubavo kazuva denesnite albanci vo Albanija nemaat nikakvi vrski so Ilirite.Nisto ama bas, nieeden fakt dokaz .Se toa sto go kazuvas e cist falsifikat.Cist amaterizamMnogu lesno moze da se falsifikuva toa go dokazuvaa Bugarite Grcite pa i vie , mene neme cudi .Anaveno ve pobija vo sekoj pogled.Vashite korenja treba da gi barate vo Azerbejgjan najdobro bi bilo za vas.iInemoj da se sramite od toa sto ste da begate od realnosta.POKAZI EDEN DOKUMENT POSTAR OD 200 GOD.:smir:

 

[fanatic]

ALBANEC/ARVANIT :pos2: HAHAH NIKAKVA DOPIRNA TOCKA .

 

[fanatic]

Што тропаш бре АНАВЕНО ?... Ме потсети на еден научник... пред неколку години истражуваше генетска поврзаност на Авганистанците и Македонците бидејќи некои Авганистанци имале плава коса и плави очи како Александар Велики

Јазикот и традицијата го поврзуваат и го содржат идентитетот и континуитетот на еден народ...

haha PAKISTAN KAJ HUNZITE I KALASHITE . Direktni naslednici na alexsandrovata vojska .Dane ti objasnuvam neznalico odi na youtub i ke vidis za hunzite i kalashite .A ne Avganistan:pos2:abe vie ste za crn humor CIMA I LECI :pos2:MOZAT VODA VI NOSAT.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

haha PAKISTAN KAJ HUNZITE I KALASHITE . Direktni naslednici na alexsandrovata vojska .Dane ti objasnuvam neznalico odi na youtub i ke vidis za hunzite i kalashite .A ne Avganistan:pos2:abe vie ste za crn humor CIMA I LECI :pos2:MOZAT VODA VI NOSAT.

Види го ти Фанатикот Албохолик стнал, дури и Цима и Леци ги знае пуууу бре бре бре и ова не го знаев какво ли влиание си имаме во Балканот дури и Цима и Леци сте Почнале да гледате се прашувам што е следното хмммммммммммм да ми текна после 2 години Фанатик и Трнот со бели капчиња ( иначе што викате вие Гипс у Глава ) и со Чифтелии ке ни пеат OJ KOSOVА NONA IME

 

[ajax]

ako makedonskiite bugari pravat identitet samo od geografski toponim 'makedonia' (koja nekogas bese upotrebena od stariot makedonski narod) ne znaci deka i na albancite identitetot mu e samo na ime Albanija ili arvania.razlikata megu nas i vas e deka nie moze da smenime ime ama ne gubime identitet(imame i razlicen jazik od site narodi/protoIE) ,a vie ako smenite ime, identitetot 'makedonci' ke vi se vrati avtomaticno vo starite koreni, bugarci, istotaka i jazikot koj se znae veke kako vi e.

ХАХАХАХАХХААА
Леле , така се немам смеано одамна. Што ти е различен јазикот бре, кога 90% од зборовите се ти од туѓо потекло ? Па вие си го менувате името преку ден оти никогаш не сте знаеле што сте! Сте испаднале од Кавказ и случајно сте се нашле на земјата на илирите, врз која веќе живееле словенските племиња, па правите макотрпни напори да се прикажете како староседелци. Може да си зборуваш кој јазик сакаш ама кога ќе те праша некој - што си ти и ти ништо неможеш да одговори , бидејќи немаш име, ти немаш идентитет ! Ти си ништо. Затоа и се викате “шќиптари“ - луге што се разбираат што зборуваат, бидејкќи неможете да се изјасните преку име. Оваа е карактеристично за сите примитивни племиња што не станале народ. И наместо некој паметен “илир“ да ни објасни како дошло до илирско-словенската јазична сличност сакаате да веруваме дека едните биле на брегот на Јадранот а другите преку Карпатите. Јас доколку што знам тогаш немало интернет, ни телефон, ама знае ли човек , стара цивилизација е таа арбанската, секогаш спремна да не изненади :hump:

 

[ajax]

Плиниј Постариот:

CHAP. 11. (10.)--ALBANIA, IBERIA, AND THE ADJOINING NATIONS.

The whole plain which extends away from the river Cyrus is inhabited by the nation of the Albani,1 and, after them,2 by that of the Iberi,3 who are separated from them by the river Alazon,4 which flows into the Cyrus from the Caucasian [p. 2021] chain. The chief cities are Cabalaca,5 in Albania, Harmastis,6 near a river7 of Iberia, and Neoris; there is the region also of Thasie, and that of Triare, extending as far as the mountains known as the Paryadres. Beyond these8 are the deserts of Colchios, on the side of which that looks towards the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Armenochalybes;9 and there is the country of the Moschi, extending to the river Iberus, which flows into the Cyrus; below them are the Sacassani, and after them the Macrones, upon the river Absarus. Such is the manner in which the plains and low country are parcelled out. Again, after passing the confines of Albania, the wild tribes of the Silvi inhabit the face of the mountains, below them those of the Lubieni, and after them the Diduri and the Sodii.

Страбон
:

This portion forms, in a way, a peninsula, for it is surrounded on the west by the Tanaïs River and Lake Maeotis as far as the Bosporus7 and that part of the coast of the Euxine Sea which terminates at Colchis; and then on the north by the Ocean as far as the mouth of the Caspian Sea;8 and then on the east by this same sea as far as the boundary between Albania and Armenia, where empty the rivers Cyrus and Araxes, the Araxes flowing through Armenia and the Cyrus through Iberia and Albania; and lastly, on the south by the tract of country which extends from the outlet of the Cyrus River to Colchis, which is about three thousand stadia from sea to sea, across the territory of the Albanians and the Iberians, and therefore is described as an isthmus.

 

[fanatic]

Види го ти Фанатикот Албохолик стнал, дури и Цима и Леци ги знае пуууу бре бре бре и ова не го знаев какво ли влиание си имаме во Балканот дури и Цима и Леци сте Почнале да гледате се прашувам што е следното хмммммммммммм да ми текна после 2 години Фанатик и Трнот со бели капчиња ( иначе што викате вие Гипс у Глава ) и со Чифтелии ке ни пеат OJ KOSOVА NONA IME

E da interesno kako toa nikoj na balkan beli kapcinja samo vie i gego mirditi od azerbejgjan dane otisol dedoti na pecalba ,tamu pa mu trebalo da ja cedi uradata pa tak si go pozajmil vdel:pos2: dobra tehnologija :pos2::pos2:

 

[PIRRO]

ALBANEC/ARVANIT :pos2: HAHAH NIKAKVA DOPIRNA TOCKA .

Албанец / Арванит ... никаква допирна точка ?... според твојата логика ти немаш никаква допирна точка со Бугарите ?...
Ајде повторување иако си можел да прочиташ и научиш нешто за албанците во Грција на 31 страна...

THE ARVANITES

​

General data on the language
Arvanites are those whose mother tongue is Arvanitika (name in Greek - ���������)/ Arberichte (name in their language); most linguists use the word Albanian for that language, but the community loathes its use, and it is therefore advisable that this sensitivity be taken into consideration unless researchers and/or human and minority rights activists do not mind alienating the very community they are studying. Likewise, they call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arberor (in their language); but in Northwestern Greece, in their language, they use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term strongly disliked by the other Arvanites, who also resent being called Albanians.
Nevertheless, Arvanitika belongs to the linguistic family of Albanian, and it has evolved from one of the two linguistic groups of Albanian, the South Albanian Tosk (the other is the North Albanian Gheg). Arvanitika has a dialectical richness: there are three different groups of dialects spoken, one in Thrace, one in Northwestern Greece (near the Albanian border), and one in Central and Southern Greece. The latter, which includes the vast majority of speakers of Arvanitika in Greece, has by itself a great dialectical variety which makes some of these dialects to be, or to be perceived by the speakers as, mutually unintelligible (Nakratzas, 1992:86; Trudgill et al., 1975:44; Tsitsipis, 1983:297; Williams, 1992:85). Along with Vlachs, Macedonians, and Roma, Arvanites in Greece argue whether they should use the Greek or the Latin alphabet to write their language, which has rarely been written (Gerou, 1994a; Kazazis, 1994).
Most Arvanites have traditionally lived in Central and Southern Greece: in most departments of the regions of Continental Greece (Sterea Ellada) and the Peloponnese (including especially most islands corresponding to these areas) and the Cyclades island of Andros. Arvanites also live near the Albanian border, in most departments of Epirus and in the Florina and Kastoria departments of Macedonia; also, in the border (with Turkey) department of Evros (in Thrace) and in the Salonica department (where they settled along with other Orthodox refugees from Eastern Thrace, in the 1920�s). Like the rest of the population, since the 1950s, Arvanites have been emigrating from their villages to the cities and especially to the capital Athens, which, incidentally, was a mainly Albanian (Arvanite) small town in the early 1800�s, before becoming the Greek state�s capital (Nakratzas, 1992:87-8). It appears that urbanization has been leading to the loss of the use of the language, which has been surviving more in the traditional villages.
There have not been any official statistics on this as well as on any other minority group in Greece since 1951 (and the statistics before then are generally considered unreliable, reflecting mostly only those with a strong ethnic consciousness). Today, the best estimate for the people who speak the language and/or have an Arvanite consciousness is that they number around 200,000. Trudgill (1983:128) gives an estimate of 140,000 for the speakers in Attica and Beotia, a figure also mentioned in Hill (1990:135). For the Arvanites in the Northwest, a figure of 30,000 is given by Ciampi (1985:87), who also puts the figure for the total group at 156,000-201,000. Some members of the community give much higher figures, around 1,600,000 (Kormoss, 1994:1; and Gerou, 1994b:2): this figure may correspond to all Greeks who have some Arvanite ancestry, but certainly not to the current speakers and those with a similar consciousness. Like all other minority languages, except Turkish, Arvanitika has no legal status in Greece and is not taught at any level of the educational system.
Moreover, there are no media in Arvanitika, though in some Attica radio stations some Arvanitika songs can be heard. Arvanites are Orthodox Christians (many belong to the Old-Calendarist �Genuine Orthodox� Church); their church services are held in Greek, with some rare exceptions of Gospel reading in Arvanitika at Easter. Even Arvanite cultural activities appear to be limited. Tsitsipis has reported only occasional folklore festivals, music and poetry contests (Tsitsipis, 1983 & 1994). Since the 1980�s, there has been a creation of Arvanite cultural associations and publication of a magazine and some books on Arvanite culture (very little though published in the language). In some areas, Easter Gospel is read in Arvanitika (Gerou, 1994a). Perhaps the most significant -for the large public- venture is the release of the CD -with an attached explanatory booklet- Arvanitic Songs (FM Records, 1994).
History of the community and the language
The first Christian Albanian migrations to what is today Greek territory took place as early as the XI-XII centuries (Trudgill, 1975:5; Banfi, 1994:19), although the main ones most often mentioned in the bibliography happened in the XIV-XV centuries, when Albanians were invited to settle in depopulated areas by their Byzantine, Catalan or Florentine rulers (Tsitsipis, 1994:1; Trudgill, 1975:5; Nakratzas, 1992:20-24 & 78-90; Banfi, 1994:19). According to some authors, they were also fleeing forced Islamization by the Turks in what is today Albania (Katsanis, 1994:1). So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.
Very little is known about the Albanian presence in Thrace; it was probably a spill-over of the many migrations mentioned above. Anyhow, there were many Albanians in Eastern Thrace and in the adjacent Western Thrace department of Evros. The former, as Christians, were relocated in Greece during the compulsory exchange of Christians and Muslims between modern-day Turkey and Greece in the 1920�s: many settled in the Salonica department.
As for the Arvanites of Epirus and Western Macedonia, they are considered to be part of the modern Albanian nation (Banfi, 1994:20), something which perhaps explains their self-identification as Shqiptars rather than Arberor. When frontiers were drawn up in the early XX century, some Christian and Muslim Albanians were left in Greek territory, just as some Greeks were left in Albanian territory. An important part of these Albanians, the Muslim Chams, fled Greece towards the end of World War II, as many had collaborated with the occupying forces and were, as a result, persecuted by Greek resistance.
When the modern Greek state was formed, the Albanian-speaking population and its language were called Albanian, even if those Christian Albanians were considered an integral part of the Greek nation and had played a decisive role in the War of Independence between 1821-1828 (Bartholdy, 1993; Bickford-Smith, 1993: 47; Embeirikos, 1994; Vakalopoulos, 1994:243-249). However, the policy of the new Greek state was to Hellenize all the non-Greek speaking Orthodox populations within its, then limited, territory as well as in the territories of Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace and Asia Minor still under Ottoman rule, which were though considered as part of Greek irredenta; the other Balkan countries (Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, and later Albania) had also followed similar policies. As elsewhere in Europe, army and education were the most effective mechanisms of Hellenization, assisted by the judiciary system ready to denounce and punish all forms of behavior inconsistent with the state�s nationalist culture (Kitromilidis, 1990:38; Kollias, 1994).
It is noteworthy to point out though, that, before the definite development of modern Albanian nationalism, there were efforts in the 1870�s to include most Albanians under Ottoman rule in a Greek-Albanian kingdom (Castellan, 1991:333; Vakalopoulos, 1994: 243-249), just as others appealed to them for their inclusion in an Albanian-Vlach Macedonian state (Berard, 1987:292-333). The Albanians� fear of an eventual assimilation by the Greeks led to the failure of the former effort.
The result of the Hellenization policy -which was to take a very oppressive turn during the Metaxas dictatorship (1936-1940)- was that Albanian Greeks, especially after the emergence of Albanian nationalism and of the Albanian state, felt that they had to �constantly prove their Greekness.� Hence, their very conservative political behavior: they had traditionally been royalists and, in large numbers, adhered to the Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian Church, which -when the split in the Greek Church over the introduction of the new calendar took place in the 1920�s- was originally supported by the royalist forces. Moreover, and more important for the survival of their language, they have distanced themselves from the Albanians to the extent that most consider today offending to be called Albanians: they have preferred the term Arvanite (Arberor in their own language) for the people and Arvanitika (Arberichte) for the language, as opposed to Albanian (Shqiptar for the people and Shqip for the language) that Albanians use for themselves and their language -with the exception of the Arvanites of Northwestern Greece, as mentioned above. This attitude may also explain the efforts of some intellectuals of the Arvanite community to trace Arvanites� and Arvanitika�s roots back to the prehistoric inhabitants of Greece, the Pelasgians and their language, so as to claim indigenous status (Williams, 1992:87; Gerou, 1994b; Thomopoulos, 1912).

 

[PIRRO]

E da interesno kako toa nikoj na balkan beli kapcinja samo vie i gego mirditi od azerbejgjan dane otisol dedoti na pecalba ,tamu pa mu trebalo da ja cedi uradata pa tak si go pozajmil vdel:pos2: dobra tehnologija :pos2::pos2:

Нормално дека никој на балкан затоа што никој освен албанците не се от тука разбираш... вие, другите си носите шубара :pos2:

 

[PIRRO]

Да. Има присуство од некои 14%...Наспроти 90% чист кавказки ген кај албанците. Назад бре у Азербејџан!

Мислиш назад од Азербејџан ... Треба таму да објавиш оглас за продажба на куќа / можна замена :helou: