Македонци, илири, траки, фрегаси...

[PIRRO]

Bi sakal seriozno da razgovarame za istorijata na ballkanot bidejki e od krucijalno znacenje za site narodi koi ziveat na ballkanot. Na temava moze da i se dade i politicka konotacija no jas bi sakal so seriozni fakti i strucni mislenja od priznati eksperti da diskutirame... na kraj na kraistata da razmenime i nasi licni mislenja no bi ve zamolil site da se pocituva secie mislenje... povelete... i prijatna diskusija...

 

[PIRRO]

Za da se studira i iznajde resenie na istoriskite problemi, ne samo na albanskata nacija tuku i na celiot balkanskiot region,italija i mala azija resenieto treba da se bara kaj pelazgite. Spored legendite i tradicijata prvite luge sto ziveele vo grcija se Pellazgite , (Horodot II,57,57). Pellazgite ne samo vo klasikata tuku i vo homerovite dela socinuvaat dalecen spomen na legenda i tradicija. Vo vrska so etimologijata na potekloto na imeto Pellazg ima razlicni mislenja. Stavron go vadi imeto Pellazg od : " pelarg " / prej larg, pi larg denesen albanski sto znaci od daleku,dalecen dodeka Robert D'Angely imeto pellazg go vadi od albanskiot piell + arg / pjell + bardh / pjelle e bardhe denesen albanski sto znaci roden bell / bella raca.
Pellazgite veruvale vo prirodnite elementi koi imale vlijanie vo nivniot zivot : sonceto,zemjata,mesecinata,moreto,veterot itn. Robert d' Angely vo knigata "Enigma" (str.150) potencira : verata na pellazgite bilo naturalizmot , znaci se obozuvale prirodnite dejstvia, fizickite agensi i nadprirodnite dejstvia... nekoi od ovie bogovi mozat da se prevedat edinstveno na denesen albanski jazik : zeus / za,ze,zot ; athina / ethena ; apollon,apullen / apudhen,hapudhen . Horodot gi stava vo istorijata pellazgite pred grckata civilizacija, krutata strana Parthenon se vika " pellazgiska gradba " . Aristidh Kola vo knigata "Gjuha e perendive/jazikot na bogovite" veli : faktot sto od evropa do indija egzistiraat zaednicki jazicni elementi se objasnuva so toa sto tie imaat zaednicka jazicna kolepka na severo-zapadniot ballkan a pellazgisko/ilirskata granka, dardanite ostavile tragi do India i Tibet. Denes mnogu istoricari ne mozat veke da ja branat indo-evropskata hipezata deka indijcite dosle na balkanot tuku se slucilo tokmu sprotivnoto, pellazgite od ballkanot se prosirile na site strani od svetot pa zatoa "starogrckiot" jazik odnosno pellazgijskiot e stolbot na indoevropejskite jazici. Kontinuitetot na Pellazgite go gledame vo Homerovite dela "iliada " i " odisea " koi dela gi prevede Pisistrat posle 5 veka i se prikazaa kako grcki. Jazicnata idioma na albancite vo planinskite predeli e idioma na jazikot na Homer, na jazikot na stariot jazik na pellazgite.
Sami Fraseri gi deli Pellazgite na cetiri granki :
1 Iliri - naseleni od granicata na Grcija do severniot del na azisko more
2 Makedonci - naseleni od shar i pind planina do egejsko more
3 Traki - naseleni vo denesna bugarija i
4 Frigasi - naseleni od anadoll do ankara ( turcija )

Naucno e potvrdeno deka ovie 4 narodi se granki na golemiot pellazgiski narod

Frigasite za lebot imale zbor : " buk" isko kako i vo denesniot albanski.
Vojskata na Aleksandar vo negoviot pohod do India bila socineta od vojnici makedonci i iliri koi ne zboruvale grcki tuku pellazgiski. Finley vo "Istorija na grckata revolucija" potencira : Aleksandar Veliki vo simpoziumite so negovite stratezi zboruval star dialekt na denesniot arvanitski (arvaniti se narekuva albanskiot narod vo grcija).
Najpoznatite Ilirski pleminja bile : dardani,ardejci,dalmati,taulanti,enkelei,kaoni,thesproti,malosi,joni. Kaj thesprotite se spomnuva deka orelot bil pocituvana ptica ; orel / ipe,ipja / shqipe,shqipja. Vo 270 p.n.e. so vmesuvanje na Olimpia,majkata na Aleksandar Veliki pleminjata kaoni,thesproti,malosi se soedinuvaat vo sojuz,kralstvo koe se narekuva Epir . Rimjanite bile dva pati porazeni vo vojnite so Epir pod vodstvo na kralot Pirro Burri. Po smrta na Pirro se pojavil nov vojskovodec,krallot Agron koj soedinil poveke ilirski pleminja, po nego vladeela negovata sopruga Teuta a po nea vladeel kralot Genti koj bil posleden ilirski krall sto vojuval so rimjanite. Pod vodstvo na Paul Emili rimjanite zavladuvaat so ilirskite zemji i po teskite borbi so epirotcite go gorat cel Epir i zele 150 000 robovi spored Robert D'Angely. Sleduvaat bezuspesni vostania na ilirite no brgu bile porazeni a podocna iliria stana rimska provincija pa so toa se objasnuva vojuvanjeto na ilirite kako platenici na rimjanite. Mnogu od ilirskite vojnici se proslavia vojuvajki za rimskata imeprija. Nekoi duri stanaa imperatori, kako Claudi,Aurelian,Dioklecian,Kostandin Veliki koj bil dardan od Naisus/Nis, Anstas I, Julan August. Na postaveoto prasanje : kako uspeal Konstantin Veliki da go preseli glavniot grad vo Kostandinopol ? Robert D'Angely ima ednostaven odgovor... " Glavniot element koj ja betonira takanarecenata razlicna populacija e denesniot albanski jazik koj jazik vo toa vreme se upotrebuval od Kavkaz i Taurus se do Herkulovite stolbovi. Albanskiot jazik e majka na starogrckiot jazik ( heleni koi se mesavina na egipkani,mesopotamijci,pellazgi) i latinicata... (str24. "Enigma " Robert D'Angely. D'Angely potencira deka ako ne bea istite bukvi neizbezno ke deklariravme deka se naogame pred dva razlicni jazika.

 

[PIRRO]

[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I L L Y R I A - ' L a n d o f t h e L y r a ' [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]



[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Illyrians[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and their history is in fact history of today's people of Dinaric region (Western [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Balkan[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]s) who are not of Slavic origin but of Illyrian.

Dinaric region contains continental Dalmatia, Dalmatian Zagora, Konavle, Lika, Kordun, Banija, Hercegovina, Bosnia, Montenegro, Rascia or Sandjak, Sumadija, Morava region, North Albania, Kosovo and today's Rep. Macedonia. In short Dinaric region is in almost the same location as the ancient Roman province of Dalmatia which was one of the two provinces of Illyricum while the other province was Panonia in the location of today's Slavonia, Zagorje, Vojvodina and half of Hungary (west of River Danube) . Province of Dalmatia covered area south of river Sava and Kupa, west of Great Morava then the border went trough Kosovo and south to river Drim in North Albania and the center was Scodra or today's Skadar.

Illyrians were a conglomeration of nations and they can be devided in several groups such as southern (hellenistic), northern (istria, under italic influences) and central/nortern (such as Dalmatians, Iapodes and Pannonians). As fas as culture and civilization goes southern group was vastly ahead of the other two and especially ahead of central/northern one (which was not lucky to border Greece or Italy).

Hellenic [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Dorians[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] settled Illyria since before 2000 BC. Illyrians spoke Hellenic and after the coming of Romans Latin language become dominant in the western and coastal parts of Illyria. Connection between Dorians and south Illyrians can be drawn by the fact that the first recorded ruler of Illyrians was called Hyllus whom in the Hellenic mythology was also son of Heraklidis (Hercules) whom Dorians considered as their ancestor hense their term 'return of Heraklidis' for their invasion of Greece.

Montenegro is the purest Illyrian racial zone while the purest Dorian racial zone is the tribe [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sfakia[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] which lives in the southwest part of the island Crete and are the descendants of Dorian invasion of Greece from around 1000 BC which came from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. In the book '[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The races of Europe[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]' ( written 1939 ) the great racial anthropologist [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Charleston Stevens Coon[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] clearly compared Montenegrins to Sfakia. Montenegrins in their speech have thousands of [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Hellenic words[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] which are mainly connected to village and house. Even the name for the national Montenegrin dance 'oro' comes from Hellenic 'horo' which means 'dance'.

Big number of the more [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]important toponym's[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] are of nonslavic origin (Hellenic or Latin origin).

It is worth mentioning that Latin speaking Illyrians spoke their own Dalmatian dialect.

All the mentioned Dinaric regions are culturally and racially more similar to Montenegrins than to Vojvodina, Zagorje, Slavonija or Central Albania.


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Racial anthropology[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] classifies people of the Dinaric region to be of Dinaric racial group which is a subgroup of Mediterranean race. The real Slavs are classified as so called "Neodanubian" which is dominant in Ukraine, White Russia, Poland, West Russia and it exists in Panonia and Slovenia or north part of former S.F.R. Yugoslavia (although in our region it is in dinarized form). Neodanubian group is a stabilized blend of Nordic Danubian group and semi-oriental Lagodan (hense the name 'neodanubian' ). Dinaric group was created as a stavlized blend between Mediterraneans and Alpines (2/3 first group). According to the already mentioned info it is obvious that Dinarics and Neodanubians are not even members of a same race and thus it easily eliminates the theory that Dinarics are Slavs. It also tells us as that the real Slavs colonized only Panonia and Slovenia and even there are not dominant but rather mixed and hense the names Slavonija or Slovenija.



[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Racial Distribution[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


In the same part of former Yu. that we find Nedanubians (5%) we also find another Mediterranean subgroup called "Noric" (10%) and which can be classified as lighter version of Dinarics. The name Noric is derived from the name of the ancient Roman province of Noricum (in today's Austria) while Norics are in effect depegmented Dinarics.

Dinaric type represents around 75% of the population of former Yu. which is the same percentage as Albania. Among us Dinarics and Noric together compose 85% of the population. On the Adriatic coast the dominant type is the so called "Western Mediterranean" type which also has no relation with Slavs either. This racial type represents around 10% of the total population of Yugoslavia and its a second most numerous with Norics (10%) and ahead of Novodunabians or simply SLAVS (5%) .

It is interesting to mention that the Neodanubian type is more evident in Hungary (35%) and even Romania (20%) than it is in former Yugoslavia. The same type represents only 20% of Czechoslovakia where Dinarics are 25% and primarily in Moravia (where it arived with colonists such as Transylvanian Romanians during the time of Austro-Hungary).

Dinaric type in different countries means different origin (according to racial anthropology and history the conclusion is that Illyrians, Venets from N. Italy, and at least partically Dorians, Macedonians and Phrygians were all of Dinaric race and thus related to each other) . Venets from North Italy (who are of Illyrian origin) and Venets or Wends from Eastern Europe (Baltic race) are not of the same origin since they are not of the same race (they neither have same culture nor language) and outside of the name have no similarity (also the names appear at the different time frames ). Name is of Latin origin (Venetus -Blue in Latin ).

-In Hungary, Moravia, SFR Yu. and Albania: Illyrian
-Romania: Illyrians in Roman legions
-Bulgaria: Illyrians in Roman legions
-Ukraine: Impact from Romania
-Greece:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Dorian[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Macedonian[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
-Italy: mainly [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Venets[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] or [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Veneti[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] (NOT
to confuse with [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Wends[/SIZE][SIZE=-1])

[/SIZE]

 

[PIRRO]

[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] D o r i a n s[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


Dorian Greeks settled in Illyria before 2000BC and the center of Dorians were Epirus and Macedonia. Ancient writer Strabo states that culture, religion, tunics, language of southern Illyrians (and Vrygians) is very similar to Epirotes and Macedonians thus making Southern Illyrians of clearly Hellenistic nature.

Dorians called themselves "Makednos" what in ancient Hellenic meant 'tall, warlike highlander ' and Macedonia was named after them. Other Hellenic nations were Micenians, Ionians, Aeolians, Acheans,etc. Dorians were very tall and very warlike. Ancient pictures of Dorian Spartans contained in them warriors with dark hair with reddish tone. Also they had tribal order, blood feuds, and possessed 'lyra' . (it is possible that the region Illyria was named after lyra and first time the name Illyria was mentioned was in 4 - th century BC). According to Hellenic mythology name Illyrians is derived from the son of Cadmus and Harmonia - Illyrius. The ruler of Dorians represented both a spiritual leader and a military leader. According to the legend Dorians got their name from one of the Helen's sons called Dorus. Some of the Dorians attacked South Greece from the direction of Macedonia, south Illyria and Epirus in 12 and 11 cen.BC . They took islands of Crete, Dodecanese and other Aegean islands also Lakonia, Argolis, and Korintos in the Peloponesos peninsula. Famous Sparta was a Doric settlement.

In the ancient Hellenic legend the Dorian invasion of Peloponesus happened around 1104 BC although now it is accepted by most historians that it accured rather in 12, 11cen. BC or even earlier. In the ancient legend the Dorian invasion was called 'return of Hercules' since according to the legend Dorians were looked at as descendants of Hercules (or Heraklidis as pronounced in Hellenic ).


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I l l y r i a n s[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


Soutn Illyrians (original Illyrians, Ardideans, belong to southern Illyrians) are descendants of earlier Dorians and first time are mentioned in recorded history in 4 cen.BC. Modern history informs us that the earliest Illyrian ruler was called Hylus who lived around 12 cen.BC . His name is identical with the name of one of the major three Dorian tribes which invaded south Greece from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria in the same time frame (12,11cen.BC). Ancient Macedonians considered Illyrians and Thracians as their close kin.

Roman sources from 2-nd cen.BC ( time of Illyrian-Roman wars ) call Queen Teuta's Illyria ( pronounced 'Tefta' and it is a old Hellenic name) a halfhellenic country because although Illyrians spoke Hellenic since their culture was a lot less advanced than that of Athens. In ancient times Hellenism represented not only speaking Hellenic language but advanced culture what was the primary reason prealexandian Macedonia was called barbarian by Athens although the language of ancient Macedonians was Hellenic.

Even the real name of the Roman emperor called Diokletian (born in Dalmatia) was Diokles (a pure Hellenic name) . Byzantine sources tell us that the only two languages spoken in Illyria were Latin (seashore and western part) and Hellenic (Eastern Illyria) while there is no mention of any separate Illyrian language.

In earlier Hellenic sources there is never a mention of a separate Illyrian language nor is there any historical remains of any such language that would lead us to conclude that Illyrian existed as a separate linguistic entity.


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]S l a v s[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


For me to be able to discredit the idea that Dinaric region people are of Slavic origin I have to state who the original Slavs were. Original Slavs were of Baltic origin and lived in the region of today's Ukraine since before 1000 BC.


As of few centuries BC until 3-4 cen. AD these Balts were controlled and enslaved by Sarmatian and Skitians (both nations were related to original Persians and Aryans and all of them spoke northern iranian language) . All of mentioned nations were originally from the region between Ukraine and Caucasus.

Original Slavic language (Baltic ) was infused with a strong Sanskrit influence by 4 cen. AD and with this it acquired its 'Slavic' form while the majority of people still remained of Baltic race. Sanskrit carrier into Slavic arrived via Baltic language that was Aryianized by Mediternian Aryans.

The very name Slav came from Hellenic word Sklavus (Slave) and Latin word Slavus (Slave). Slavs were traded as slaves in Crimea by Sarmatians, Scythians, Hazars, Goths, etc. and the buyers were Persians, Arabs, Latins and Byzantines and in their sources Slavs were described as racially identical with Germanics (logical since Baltic Lithuanians look Germanic ) .

Also the [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]strongest two elements in Slavic are Baltic[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and Sanskrit.

The words [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Serb (Serboi) and Croat (Horuvatos) are of Sarmatian (Proto-Iranian) origin[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and represented Sarmatian tribes (Serboi were originally one of the tribes of Sarmatic Alans) which ruled over Baltic Slavs and by doing so have transferred their name upon them while the ruling class have remained to be Sarmatian.


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Situation in preslavic Illyria [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


Even before the coming of Slavs Illyria was run down by Goths, Gepids, Huns, Avars, etc. and it represented a easy prey for Slavs warriors who although were less numerous than Illyrian population nevertheless were warriors while Illyria was weakened and under a Barbarian sword.

Slavic formations counted around 100,000 total when they entered Balkans (the biggest Barbarian formation were certainly Goths who numbered 200,000 - 300,000 when they entered Balkans and were front-runners to other Barbarians and the strongest Barbarian element which represents number one reason why western Roman empire collapsed ).

Widely accepted number for the Roman empire is around 60 million people (half of in the eastern part of the empire ).

Byzantine Balkan part had 3-4 million people (Constantinople alone between 0.5m.-1.0 m. ) . Regions which are equivalent to today's Greece had around 1 million thus leaving between 1.5 to 2 million in Illyria (~ 0.7m. ) , Makedonia (~ 0.5m. ) , and Trakia (~ 0.6m). Since Slavs, all together, numbered around 100.000 people it is logical to conclude that the reason they didn't leave a racial mark on Balkans is do to the fact that they were much less numerous comparing to the preslavic nations. According to racial anthropology is is easily noticed that the Slavic racial element (called Neodanubian element) is only present in Panonia and Slovenia which also explains names such as Slovenia and Slavonia. Panonia is a plain and as such was more harder to defend comparing to mountain regions such as Illyria (ancient province of Dalmatia ), Makedonia and Trakia which also had a lot more people living in them comparing to Panonia which was under frequent Barbarian attacks from nations that either lived in that vicinity or were passing trough. Illyrians were forcefully slavonized (also Macedonia and Trakia ). Areas like Montenegro, Macedonia and Bulgaria have a strong Hellenic linquistic even bigger cultural impact.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]C o n c l u s i o n[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

The biggest proof that Dorians, Illyrians and Dinaric people are one unit is in comparing the Dorian tribe Sfakia in SW Crete with Montenegrins, who are in so many ways are similar (stature, appearance, national custome, warlikeness, tribal order, vendettas ) . The racial relation between Montenegrins and Sfakia was also mentioned in a book called '[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Races of Europe[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]' written by [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Coon[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] in 1939 where he also writes about the racial connection between Slavs, Balts, and Germanics.[/SIZE]

 

[Serdarot]

procitav toa sto e pisuvano na makedonski, i gledam deka pocnuva da vi se razbistruva, megjutoa zosto ne ti se gledaat faktite koi oci bodat?

ako navistina "buk" bilo leb na frigiski, a bas me interesiraat izvori za toa, togas sto ke kazes za toa kolkav del od denesniot Albanski jazik ima "slovenski" fond na zborovi, "slovenski" toponimi, iminja...

i sto e so Makedonskiot Jazik? dali si svesen za slicnosta i odrzanosta na Makedonskiot Jazik vo poslednite nekolku iljadi godini?

p.s.

angliski razbiram odlicno, isto i germanski i nekolku drugi jazici, megjutoa potrudi se da gi prevedes tekstovite na Makedonski ako sakas poseriozna diskusija

p.p.s

Albanskiot jazik e majka na starogrckiot jazik

lol

 

[Serdarot]

inace, okolu "buk"

arhaicen Makedonski zbor za peceno testo vo forma na ona sto denes e poznato kaok leb ili lepinja, e BULE

Bule
Bul
l -> k
Buk...

svestise, ne e kasno

p.s.

i na plostad ako si od Skopje, gragjanska dolznost e da se brani ustavnoto ime

 

[^Poor Knight]

Romancite bile dva pati porazeni vo vojnite so Epir pod vodstvo na kralot Pirro Burri ( den denes vo celiot svet se koristi " kako Pirrovata bitka" koga sakame da pokazeme nesto skoro nevozmozno).

Prvo ne se Romanci, tuku Rimjani. Barem na makedonski. Vtoro, izrazot 'pirova pobeda' nema dopirni tochki so znachenjeto shto go prikaza. Kolku za opshta kultura.

Konkretno, za opshtoprifateniot romantichen zanes, go ima i na dosta od postoechkite temi za da mora da go shirish...

 

[PIRRO]

ke mi treba malku poveke vreme da go prevedam textot od angliski na makedonski a informaciite vo tekstot na makedonski se od :

Auteur : ANGELY ROBERT D'
Livre : GRAMMAIRE ALBANAISE COMPAREE
Edit� par S. d'angely - Paru en 1998


Auteur : ANGELY ROBERT D'
Livre : DES THRACES DES ILLYRIENS A HOMERE
Edit� par Cismonte e pumonti - Paru en 1990
Auteur : ANGELY ROBERT D'
Livre : LES PELASGES
Edit� par Cismonte e pumonti - Paru en 1990


Robert d'Angely misli deka albanskiot jazik e majka na pellazgiskiot i latinskiot jazik bidejki edinstveno kaj albancite seuste se upotrebuva pellazgijskiot jazik, pak ke kazam spored negovo mislenje, a ne bi bilo loso da pokazete neslovenski zborovi koi se koristat na denesniot makedonski jazik, zatoa e temava a inaku eve dokazi na albanskiot jazik vo homerovite "iliada" i "odisea" :

albanski / homer / grcki / makedonski

1. Ai qe nem, nem (folje) / Neme-sis, neme-sao / Katara / kolne
2. Anda, enda- / Andha-no / Efkharistisi / skita
3. Are, ara / Arura / Horбfi / niva
4. Bashke ec / Vask ithi / Porevume / cekori
5. Dera / Thira / Porta / vrata
6. Deti / Theti-s / Thalasa / more
7. Dhe, dheu (toke) / Jea, dhor, dha / Ji / zemja
8. Dor-e, dor-a / Ekedeka-dor-o / Qheri / raka
9. Dru / Dris, drimos, driti / Ksilo / drvo
10. Edhe, dhe, Idhe, te / Qe / i (svrznik)
11. Elbe, elbi / Alfiton / Krithari / jacmen
12. Ene / Enimi / Ruho / sad
13. Erret, erresire / Ere-vos / Skotos / temnina
14. Ethe (kam ethe) / Ethir, ethae / Piretos / treska
15. Flas / Flio, fliarae / Milao, omilae / govoram,zboruvam
16. Fryma, frima / Frimao / Fisima / zdiv /
17. Hedh / Heo Rhino, tinazo, / sio / frla
18. Heq,hek / Elko / Travae / povlekuva,potrgnuva
19. Iki, ike/ Iko / Fevgo / begam,begas
20. Kale, kali / Kelis / tos бlogo / konj
21. Kall / Kileo / Qeo / gori
22. Korr / Kiro / Thiro / bere,beram
23. Krua, kroi / Krunos / Vrisi / potok / izvor
24. Krye, krie / Krithen / Qefali / glava
25. Lehem / Leho, lohia / Jenieme / (se) poroduvam
26. Lepur / Leporis / Lagaes / zajak
27. Lesh / Lasios / Malе / planina
28. Lig (i lig) / Lig-ios, lig-aes / Adhinatos / zllo,zllostornik
29. Loz, ljoz / Lizo / Pezo / igra,poigruva
30. Lutem / Litome / Parakalae / (se) molam
31. Marr, mar / Mar / pto Perno / zemam
32. Marre (i marre) / Margos / Trelaes / lud,naludnicav
33. Me duket / Dhokei mi / Nomizo / mi se cini
34. Mend, mendoj Mendohem / Medhome Sqeftome / nus / (se) mislam
35. Meri, meni / Minis / Thimos / omraza
36. Mi, miu Mis / Pondе / glusec
37. Mjeshter / Mistor / Tehnitis / majstor
38. Mjet / Mitos Nima / hondrae / naprava,sprava
39. Ndaj, daj / Dheo, deo / Horizon / prema toa
40. Ne (neve) / Noi / Emis / nie
41. Nisem / Nisome / Ksqinae / trgnuvam
42. Nuk / Ni uk / Dhen / ne (negacija)
43. Nuse / Nisos, nios / Nifi / nevesta
44. Para / Paros / Mbrostб / pari
45. Per ty / Par ti / Ja sena / za tebe
46. Per-hapa, per-hapsh / Apsh,aps /Piso / proshiriv
47. Pune, puna / Ponos / Dhuliб / rabota
48. Qas,qasje, kias / Qio, kio / Simono / dostapnost
49. Qen, qeni / Qion / Sqilos / kuce
50. Re, rete / Rea / Sinefo / oblaci
51. Rrah / Rahso, raso / Dherno, htipae / tepa
52. Rri / e-ri- dhome /Kathome / stojam
53. Rronje (rroj, jetoj) / Rronio, rronimi / Zo, akmazo / ziveam
54. Ruaj, rojtar / Rrio, rritor / Filбso / cuvam
55. Shkel / Skel-os / Patio, patae / gazi,gazam
56. Shkop / Skipon, skiptro / Ravdhi / stap
57. Sy / O-se / Mбti / oci
58. Tata, ati, i jati / Tata, ata, jetas / Pateras / tato
59. Ter (thaj) / Ter-so / Stegnaeno / tkaam,tkae
60. Therres, thrres, thrras / Threo, throos / Fonazo/ vikam, povikuvam
61. Torre / Tornoo / Jiro / ?
62. Udhe, udha / Udhos / Dhromos / pat
63. Vane (shkuan) / Van / Pigan/ otidoa,zaminaa
64. Vend /ved Ved-os, vedh-os Edhafos / topos / mesto
65. Vere / Vear / Kaloqeri / leto
66. Vesa / versa Versi / Dhrosos / rosa
67. Vesh / vishem Ves-this, vesnimi / Forae, forбo / oblekuvam
68. Zien / Zei / Vrazi / vari

 

[rymz]

Теоријава држи вода, и долго време сум размислувал во оваа насока, дека античките македонци и албанците, односно илирите, епирците или како кој сака нарекува, па макар и Албанците имаат заедничко потекло.

Сум напоменал неколку пати дека мајка му на Александар била од Епир, што покажува на поврзаност помеѓу двата народа. Исто така на овој форум некој беше напишал за тестаментот на Александар, каде под точка седум, не знам што точно остава во наследство на илирите.
Словенските топоними, сличностите на некои зборови во двата јазика, Ематија, Албанија, Македонија како територии не како народности, заеднички борби против другите, многу лесно би можело тоа да се објасни со оваа теорија.

Но, сепак мислам дека ни едните, македонците, а ни другите, сеуште не се на такво интелектуално ниво да би признале воопшто можност на било каква шанса да ова е вистина, со чест на исклучоци.

Многу работи биле/се заборавени, некој дел од нив намерно изгорени изгубиени, од страна на Русите, Србите. Истиот терор што го имаат поминато македонците со србите, го имаат поминато и албанците. Значи доаѓаме до момент кога и едните и другите го јадат стапот од третиот, и на крај третиот испаѓа подобар од овој со кого заедно си делел маката...нејасно...

Иако во моментов си читам така по малце за Венетите како народ, кои постоеле на територијава такозвани Балкан, и некои си теории, би било интересни и таа алка која недостига некако да се уклопи во ваквата теорија.

Колку за слика...Венетите биле народ избркани од овие простори кон север (Карпатите??) кои биле бајаги цивилизирани за нивно време. Се верува дека и Венеција го добило името според нив.
Дали уствари Венетите се некоја алка која недостига помеѓу античките Македонци и денешните. Дали Венетите се тие кои избркани на север, ги научиле русите на нивната култура, им го дале словото (што денеска го знаеме како словенско писмо) и после си се вратиле назад во нивниот дом, дел од историјата познат како доаѓањето на словените од Карпатите?

Теоријата постои, но зашто овој сегмент, овој народ никогаш детално не бил проучен? На кого тоа не му одговара...На Русите? Дека тогаш нивната сила, не би била толку голема доколку се докаже дека некој од балканот отишол, ги направил луѓе, па се вратиле назад. Нема веќе да постои Мајка Русија, туку Венетите би биле тие условно да кажам револуционери на културата што денеска ја имаат словените...

Чим веќе се зборува за поврзаност на илирите и античките македонци, и нивното потекло од Пелазгите, теорија со која се согласувам, би било интересно да се прочепка и за Венетите, и нивната улога во таа теорија на заедничко потекло.


П.С само осеќам сеа анавено копипејст маестре ќе усере нешто...

 

[TpH_Bo_OkO]

Под „фрегаси“ се мисли на „фригијци“?

 

[Serdarot]

Robert d'Angely misli deka albanskiot jazik e majka na pellazgiskiot i latinskiot jazik bidejki edinstveno kaj albancite seuste se upotrebuva pellazgijskiot jazik, pak ke kazam spored negovo mislenje...

Problemot e vo paradoksot, ne gledas? Albanskiot jazik moze da e DETE , odnosno vnuk-pravnuk na jazikot na Pelazgite, ama NIKAKO MAJKA

i, kako moze da napise deka Albanskiot e Majka na Pelazgiskiot, a Albancite upotrebuvaat Pelazgiski...

ne ti e malku "kuku" rabotata?

znaci, nemam problem dokolku se obiduvas da pokazes i dokazes deka Albanskiot ima koreni vo Antikata, ima strucni lica koi se i ke se zanimavaat so tie problematiki, imam problem koga citam izjavi od tipot "prvo Srbi, pa Amebi, pa posle dojde Bog i prasa dali smee da go napravi svetot"

so takvi neseriozni-romanticni-nacionalshovinisticki teorii od tipot na gorespomnatite Srpski teorii, koi gledam gi kopirate i vie sega, samo stanuvate predmet na podsmev.

@ rymz: tebe sega pocnuva da ti ima logika "teorijava" ?

ne samo jas, mnogumina odamna ukazuvaat na nepobitnoto, deka Slovencite, Hrvatite, Srbite, Albancite, Bugarite, del od Grcite i Makedoncite imaat isti predci...

Jazikot, Folklorot / Tradicijata, i normalno, genite... seto toa mozi da se prouci i da se slozi mozaikot, megjutoa ve fakja site srpski sindrom, namesto da gi analizirate dejstvijata hronoloski i logicno, i normalno, dokumentirano, vie tropate gluposti.

 

[goca]

Оргиналот на :Ai qe nem = аи џанам и баш со овие буквички е напишан
веќе ако работиш работи со оргиналот , побарај од Анавено да ти го прати ...

 

[rymz]

@ rymz: tebe sega pocnuva da ti ima logika "teorijava" ?

ne samo jas, mnogumina odamna ukazuvaat na nepobitnoto, deka Slovencite, Hrvatite, Srbite, Albancite, Bugarite, del od Grcite i Makedoncite imaat isti predci...

Jazikot, Folklorot / Tradicijata, i normalno, genite... seto toa mozi da se prouci i da se slozi mozaikot, megjutoa ve fakja site srpski sindrom, namesto da gi analizirate dejstvijata hronoloski i logicno, i normalno, dokumentirano, vie tropate gluposti.

Сердаре, мене теоријава одамна ми фаќа логика, јас не прочитав вчера, па да кажам, да мајката така е.

Него Словените, Србите, Бугарите и Грците немаат врска.
Би се согласил за Црногорците, Албанците, Македонците, и дел од Хрватите. Да имаа србите нешто слично со македонците/албанците, немашо толку долго да вршат репресии врз истите. Од век векова албанците и македонците си помагале. Тоа се смени за време на Југославија, и знаеме зашто.
Дефинитивно мене барем а и некои други личности не ги фатило српски синдром. За глупостите не знам кој тропа, кога ти лично си тој кој на многу наврати мене лично ме имаш навредено за глупости...ама ај. Цело време викаш Албанци,а денеска поради некое чудо, албанци сме. Тоа е тоа што во денешно време не дели двата народа. Сум за соединување, за заеднички живот...ама со отворени карти. И сигурно не сум за некој да си ја акредитира неговата историја, а мојата да ја негира, да ја гази, и да ми вика дека сум дошол од Кавказ, кога докази има...само се игнорираат.

Оргиналот на :Ai qe nem = аи џанам и баш со овие буквички е напишан
веќе ако работиш работи со оргиналот , побарај од Анавено да ти го прати ...

Зашто, о зашто ти и анавено упорно се трудите да постирате нешто во врска со албанскиот јазик кога немате две благе везе со јазикот.
Ai qe nem = тој кој колне...

Ai xhanam = е на турски, џанам е душа...

 

[fmi]

Еве малце повеке за траките.
Богатства на траките.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Thracian_treasure_NHM_Bulgaria.JPG

 

[fmi]

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