Геополитички размислувања за минатото и иднината на Македонија

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Уф добро е! За миг помислив декa биле Гоктуркијци или Хуни.

Можеш ли ти да ни презентираш генетски и антрополошки докази дека биле Бугари или зборуваш напамет?

Eве колку биле Бугари:

1727198498996.png

Колку потенцијални Бугари гледаш овде?

C-M217 Altaic-Mongolian / Altáji-Mongol
(EN) Presumably came to Hungary during the Mongolian invasion but a Xiongnu-Hun origin is also possible. Originally the group arrived approximately 34 thousand years ago to Manchuria, and then spread from there in historical times with Altaic speakers.

E1b1b1-V13 Thracian-Pannonian / trák-pannon
(EN) This ancestors of this ethnic group (L618) originated in West Asia or North Africa around 10 000 BC and spread from there to Europe around the Mediterranean in the Neolithic period. It had a secondary demographic expansion in Europe around 2100 BC, and conquered the Balkans in the Iron Age from the Alps. Most of them were conquered and Romanized by the Romans, but part of them retained their identity in the mountains giving birth to the Albanian nation. The Pannonians in the Carpathian Basin were assimilated by later coming ethnic groups (Celts, Romans, Germans etc.) and finally to Magyars. It also appears among frequently among Vlachs (Aromuns and Romanians).

E1b1b1-V22 & V12 Northeast African/ északkelet-afrikai
(EN) These are brother clades of V13, but are much more common in the Nile Valley than in Europe. Originated around 8000-6200 BC, most likely in Egypt. It is not clear how they ended up in the Carpathians, may be Roman-era or Ottoman-era admixture.

E1b1b1-M183 Berber / berber
(EN) This group originated in North Africa around 700 BC and expanded in Northwest Africa with Berber people. M183 males crossed the Mediterranean into Europe during Roman times or the Islamic expansion. It can be Roman or Ottoman-era admixture in the Carpathian Basin.

E1b1b1-M123, M34 Afro-Semitic / afrikai sémi
(EN) This haplogroup is most likely the original bearer of the Semitic languages, and is mostly connected with a Semitic ancestry, however a limited number of people arrived to Europe during the Neolithic. Origins around 13.200 BC during early Neolithic in Egypt or Arabia.

G2a-P15 – Caucasian Farmer / kaukázusi földműves
(EN) Thisgroup has a common ancestor around 25.000 BC, and it arrived into Europe withthe first Neolithic farmers. G2a samples were found in Hungarian, German, South French and Catalonian Neolithic graves, and Ötzi the Iceman also belonged to this group. Its subgroups are the following:
G2a-P15*: the widely but thinly spread most ancient subclade (18 kya), may have entered the Hungarian gene pool around the Caucasus or is a remnant of Neolithic farmers.
G2a-P16/L293: Most common among Ossetians and Georgians. May have a Kabar or Sarmatian/Alan connection in Hungary. Birth: 7600 BC.
G2a-M406: Rare group around the Mediterranean from Anatolia to Italy, in Hungary most likely Roman admixture. Birth: 6600 BC
G2a-L497 and G2a-L91:These markers represent the earliest farmers in Europe. They appeared already in Europe around 5400 BC and 7300 BC, respectively. These lineages are rare outside Europe, and can be considered Neolithic farmers in the Carpathian Basin.
G2a-U1,L1266:This subgroup is dominant among Northwest Caucasian peoples (Abkhaz, Kabard, Cherkess). It appeared around 5800 BC and likely has a Kabar connection in Hungary.
G2a-L13,L1263:This originally Neolithic farmer group appeared around 600 BC in Northern Germany, from there it expanded with Germanic migrations, and is connected to German ancestry in the Carpathian Basin.

H1a1a (H-M82),
is found commonly among the Roma, who originated in South Asia and migrated into the Middle East and Europe, around the beginning of the 2nd millennium CE, and the Khmer people who got under influence from Indian populations.

I1-M253 Germanic / germán
(EN) This haplogroup has a common ancestor around 2600 BC and likely expanded during Nordic Bronze Age. It is a remnant of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers who adopted the Indo-European culture in South Scandinavia. We have a good reason to assume that every I1 man has some kind of a Germanic origin and once lived in the Scandinavia/Baltic Sea area. However, we can't be sure if a certain I1 line in the Carpathian Basin is of early Germanic (Goth, Gepid, Langobard) or of late Germanic settler (Saxon, Rhineland, Swabian, Austrian) origin.

I2-M423, CTS10228 Dinaro-Carpathian South Slavic/dinári-kárpáti délszláv
(EN) The Eastern European branch of this haplogroup has a common ancestor around 200 BC, who most likely lived in Southern Poland or Western Ukraine. The Dinaro-Carpathians then expanded during the Avar-Slavic migration period in late Roman times. This gene was found among elite Hungarian conqueror graves in Karos, at least one of the conqueror tribes should have had this paternal gene. Many of them probably settled in the Carpathian Basin and the Balkans during the Avar period, when Slavs were used by Avars for border guard duties as well as for farming. Another part of them arrived later in the Middle Ages and assimilated to the Hungarians.

I2-M223 Mesolithic-Saxon / mezolit-szász
(EN) This group descending from Mesolithic hunter-gatherers has a common ancestor around 10.000 BC and is widespread all over Europe. Later they adopted farming and were found in most pre-Indo-European Middle and Late Neolithic cultures. Some subgroups underwent a secondary demographic expansion after Indo-European migrations from the Steppe. Today it has the highest frequency in Northern Germany (Lower Saxony). In the Carpathian Basin, they are partly connected to German settlers; however a much earlier prehistoric arrival of some lines is likely as I2-M223 males were found in Bronze Age Hungarian Nagyrév culture (Vátya).

I2-L38 Mesolithic-Rhinelander/ mezolit-rajnai
(EN) This is a very rare group descending from Mesolithic hunter-gatherers having a common ancestor around 2900 BC, and spreading along the Rhine Valley into Britain. Rare elsewhere in Europe. It was found to be a dominant group in a cave from 1000 BC in the Harz mountains in Central Germany. To Hungary and Balkans it may have arrived with Celtic or Germanic tribes, as there is a specific cluster here which is 1500-1600 years old.

J1-Z1842 Dagestani / dagesztáni
(EN) This J1 subgroup is dominant among Northeast Caucasian Dagestani people. J1 originated in the Fertile Crescent 18-19 thousand years ago. After the adoption of farming J1-Z1842 migrated northwards through the Caucasus while his P58 brother moved southwards to the Arabian Peninsula. This group most likely admixed to Magyars when they stayed in the Ciscaucasian area.

J1-P58 Arabo-Semitic / arábiai sémi
(EN) This J1 subgroup is dominant among Semitic speakers (Arabs, Jews) and also contains the famous „Cohen modal haplotype”. However, there are rare subclades around the Mediterranean which have spread earlier before P58 adopted the proto-Semitic language. Therefore the non-Jewish P58 lines in Hungary might come from Roman or Ottoman-era settlement.

J2a (M410+) Middle Eastern / közel-keleti
(EN) This group has a common ancestor around 18-19 thousand years ago in the Fertile Crescent. The group is very diverse in Hungary. It might have arrived during Late Neolithic times, Metal Ages or during the Roman period. The J2a-M92+ subgroup is quite young in the Carpathian Basin among Székely, having a single ancestor around in the early middle ages, and likely represents a yet undefined tribe from the Caucasus area.

J2b (M12+) Illír-mediterrán / Illyrian-Mediterranean
(EN) This ethnic group appeared in the Middle East around 16.000 BC. However, most J-M12 people in Europe and belong to the J2b2-M241> L283 subgroup which was born in Anatolia around 3500 BC and likely spread out from there, dominating the Bronze Age Illyrian and Sardinian Nuraghe ancient DNA. In the Balkans, most of them were conquered and Hellenized or Romanized, but part of them in the mountains contributed to the birth to the Albanian nation. It also appears among frequently among Vlachs (Aromuns and Romanians).

L (M20) Indus Valley / Indus-völgyi
(EN) This group has its origins in Iran around 23-24 thousand years ago, spreading towards the East with Neolithic farming, likely forming later the Indus Valley civilization. It is found in small numbers in Central Asia and the Mediterranean. The M349+ B374+ Rhine-Danubian cluster has a common ancestor in Roman times, so we can assume it came into the Carpathian Basin from the Middle East during Roman times. However, a Central Asian type L sample was found in Hunnic-era Hungary as well.

N (M231) - North Eurasian /észak-eurázsiai
(EN) Haplogroup N most likely appeared somewhere in Eastern China around 22 thousand years ago, and migrated westwards in Siberia/North Eurasia. It was found to be the dominant gene among early Neolithic farmers in Northeast China (Manchuria). Its subgroups:
N-P189: Inner Asian group, it was found in Baikal Mesolithic, Botai culture and also Iron Age Hungary. There is a very young (800 years old) small N-P189 cluster in the Carpathian Basin and the Balkans.
N-P43: Samoyedic group which appeared around 2400 BC, part of it (VL73) became Oghuz Turkic and could have entered the Magyar gene pool from Turkic Nomads.
N-M2019: This N subgroup is most common among Yakuts but is also present among Central Asian Turkic peoples. Born around 1700 BC near Lake Baykal, with a Central European cluster dating from 300 AD, found in the Magyar conquerors and the Bashkir Yenei tribe.
N-Z16981: the typical Lithuanian subgroup of Baltic N-L1025, which has spread southwards during the Middle Ages in the times of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Most likely Slavicized Lithuanian admixture in Hungary. Gedeminids (Jagiellonian Dynasty) belonged to this group.
N-Y13850, L1034,L1442: typical N subgroup for Magyar conquerors, Ob-Ugrians and Bashkirs with limited appearance among contemporary Magyars. Can be considered the gene of the original Ugric-speaking Magyar tribe(s).
N-F4205: an Inner Asian subgroup dominant among Buryat Mongolians and also one Turkic tribe. It represents the Avar elite graves in Hungary, but it is so far absent from contemporary Magyars.

Q-M25, L713 – Hun-avar / hun-avar
(EN) This is a South Siberian branch of haplogroup Q, found among early Xiongnu and Tien-san Huns. Q-M25 is typical for Turkmens in Central Asia. Hungarian M25 males belong to a specific 1900 years old subgroup (L713>YP789) and form a single tribe, which was found abundantly among Avar graves. It could have been connected to Huns and is certainly a remnant of Avars among Székely people, likely being responsible for the Hun-Magyar traditions.

Q-M346 & L275 South Siberian / dél-szibériai
(EN) This group has its origins in the Altay mountains around 20 thousand years ago, from where they populated the Americas. Over 90% of the Native American lineages belong to this group, especially its M3+ and Z780+ subgroups. Other subgroups are found in Europe, they might have come westwards to Europe as hunter-gatherers during Paleolithic around the same time when they populated the Americas. Some groups might have arrived in historical times with Eurasian Nomads from South Siberia.

R1a1a1b (M417) North-East Indo-European/északkelet-indo-európai
(EN) Haplogroup R1a-M417 originated around 3400 BC in the Dnieper-Don area. From there, it expanded quickly in all direction, spreading now from Scandinavia to South India and from the Balkans to Mongolia with Indo-European speakers. It makes up a significant part of Scandinavian (Z284+), West Slavic (M458+), Balto-Slavic (Z280+) as well as Indo-Iranian and Turkic (Z93+) speakers. It can be divided into several subgroups:
R1a-Z283>M458: the West Slavic subgroup of R1a-M417, can be considered mostly Polish and Slovak admixture among Hungarians. Has two large subgroups, L260 and CTS11962, both are present in Hungary.
R1a-Z280: the North-Eastearn subclade of R1a-M417, approximately 4600 years old. It is common from the Baltic to the Urals as well as the Carpathian Basin. The “Volga-Carpathian type” Y2902 typically appears in Russia and the Carpathian Basin and is likely East Slavic admixture. The “Slovene-Moravian Y2613” is typical for Slovenes, Slovaks and Hungarians. The Z92 subgroup is more typical for Northeast Europe (Balts, Russians and Volga Finns).
R1a-Z93: the Asian subgroup of R1a-M417, approximately 4500 years old. It is common among Altaian Turks, Kyrghyz, Ashkenazi Jews, Indians and Eastern Iranians. Associated with the Central Asian Bronze Age Sintashta and Andronovo cultures (Proto-Indo-Iranians). Later it was assimilated by Turkic peoples and in the Carpathian basin, it can be considered as Turkic admixture. It is the haplogroup of the Turul (Árpád) Dynasty and it was found among Magyar conqueror graves. It also has a specific Székely subgroup which might be Sarmatian.

R1b-M269 South-Western Indo-European / délnyugat-indo-európai
(EN) Haplogroup R1b-M269 originated around 4400 BC in the Don-Dnieper Basin and was found in proto-Indo-European Yamna Culture graves. Today it is the most common haplogroup in Western and Central Europe, as well as post-Columbian Americas. It can be divided into several subgroups based on SNP testing, thus for R1b people, ordering BigY test is crucial.
R1b-Z2103: this 6100 years old subgroup is called the Armenian Modal Haplotype and is most common in and around Armenia, but can be seen in significant numbers all-over the Middle East (including Jews) and Balkans (Albanians and Greeks). It was also the paternal gene of Inner Asian Tocharians (Afanasievo culture). It has high frequency in Bashkiria and is present among Mansi and Hungarian conquerors, so Steppe Magyars likely had this haplotype to some extent.
R1b-L11: this is the basic West Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). It is the most common haplogroup in Western and up to 80% among Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Basque peoples. Those people who are predicted L11+ need more SNP tests to see their proper subgroup as grouping is impossible based on marker values. It appeared around 3000 BC most likely in Poland. It spread with Bell Beaker culture (Early Bronze Age), which is likely connected to the spread of Italo-Celtic langauges. WAMH in Hungary may be a result of either an early remnant population from early Bronze Age societies or the result of a back-migration from Western Europe during the Middle Ages (e.g. German and Latin hospes).
R1b-U106: this is the Germanic subgroup of WAMH, it is the most common haplotype in the Netherlands but also appear wherever Germanic peoples migrated. It was originally found in pre-Germanic Bronze Age in the Low Countries and thus might have been "Germanized" later. It is the paternal gene of the Bourbon and Wettin royal families.
R1b-P312: the Italo-Celtic subgroup of WAMH is very diverse, it likely shows an early Italo-Celtic population as well as settlement from Roman era Italy (legionaries), Alpine Celts (300-200 BC) or Swabian Germans (Middle Ages) in the Carpathian Basin. The most common P312 subgroup in Hungary is Alpine U152.

R2 (M124) South Asian Neolithic / dél-ázsiai földműves
R2 is a 16 thousand years old haplogroup originally spreading from Central Asia towards the Middle East. It was likely part of the Iranian Neolithic and spread towards the Mediterranean and India/Indus Valley from there.

T1 (M70) - Mediterranean / mediterrán
(EN) Haplogroup T originated around 16 thousand years ago, most likely in the Middle East. Its closest relative is Haplogroup L. It likely spread with farming especially in coastal areas (seafarers) as it is found all-over the coast of the Indian Ocean and the Mediterranean. It likely arrived to the Carpathian Basin with Neolithic farmers or is Roman-era admixture.
 
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Прегледај го приврзокот 430392

Уф добро е! За миг помислив декa биле Гоктурци или Хуни.

Можеш ли ти да ни презентираш генетски и антрополошки докази дека биле Бугари или зборуваш напамет?
Не разбирам зошто треба да се правиш на ментално болен? Овде не зборуваме за гени, туку за припадност на народност.

Bulgarians (Bulgarian: б'лгари, romanized: bŭlgari, IPA: [ˈbɤɫɡɐri]) are a nation and South Slavic ethnic group native to Bulgaria and its neighbouring region, who share a common Bulgarian ancestry, culture, history and language.
 
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Не разбирам зошто треба да се правиш на ментално болен? Овде не зборуваме за гени, туку за припадност на народност.

Bulgarians (Bulgarian: б'лгари, romanized: bŭlgari, IPA: [ˈbɤɫɡɐri]) are a nation and South Slavic ethnic group native to Bulgaria and its neighbouring region, who share a common Bulgarian ancestry, culture, history and language.
Кое заедничко бугарско потекло, култура, историја и јазик делите!?
Нè тролаш сите нас на форумов?

Како не разбираш дека ти со Бугарите не делиш ништо?
 
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Кое заедничко бугарско потекло, култура, историја и јазик делите!?
Нè тролаш сите нас на форумов?

Како не разбираш дека ти со Бугарите не делиш ништо?
Ама изгледа ти не разбираш дека Бугарите се и Протобугари и Прабугари и Тракијци и Словени, а Македонците се Македонци од '45 па наваму. Во никој случај потомци на античките народи.
 
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Кое заедничко бугарско потекло, култура, историја и јазик делите!?
Нè тролаш сите нас на форумов?

Како не разбираш дека ти со Бугарите не делиш ништо?
Ние Бугарите имаме заедничко потекло, култура, историја, јазик и религија. Има различни Бугари и со некои не ги делам сите овие карактеристики, но со повеќето ги делам.
Автоматски споено мислење:

Ама изгледа ти не разбираш дека Бугарите се и Протобугари и Прабугари и Тракијци и Словени, а Македонците се Македонци од '45 па наваму. Во никој случај потомци на античките народи.
Бугарите се Бугари, тие не се претставници на тракиски, словенски или прабугарски племиња. Еднаш пред 10 века било поинаку и таму биле поставени темелите на современата бугарска нација/народ/етнос.
 

YuZe

Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Ние Бугарите имаме заедничко потекло, култура, историја, јазик и религија. Има различни Бугари и со некои не ги делам сите овие карактеристики, но со повеќето ги делам.
Автоматски споено мислење:


Бугарите се Бугари, тие не се претставници на тракиски, словенски или прабугарски племиња. Еднаш пред 10 века било поинаку и таму биле поставени темелите на современата бугарска нација/народ/етнос.
Ах татарче. Де врати се од кај што си дојден, не ја загадувај темата.
 

пунтер

betfair trader
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Ние Бугарите имаме заедничко потекло, култура, историја, јазик и религија. Има различни Бугари и со некои не ги делам сите овие карактеристики, но со повеќето ги делам.
си мислиш американци сте, :zver:, и вие сте нашле некого да негирате,човек да ве жали со МАКЕДОНСКА гајда.
Автоматски споено мислење:

си мислиш американци сте, :zver:, и вие сте нашле некого да негирате,човек да ве жали со МАКЕДОНСКА гајда.
@roden не се смеј на секој пост на форумов што немаш што да кажеш, излези храбро од курвинската куќа каде те родила мајка ти и кажи што имаш да кажеш, грев е таму цел да го поминеш, земи воздух, забаорави го минатото на мајка ти и излези меѓу нормалниот свет.
 
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Ние Бугарите имаме заедничко потекло, култура, историја, јазик и религија. Има различни Бугари и со некои не ги делам сите овие карактеристики, но со повеќето ги делам.
А има ли црни Бугари-Црнци, за жолти Бугари сум слушнал па не мора за тоа да ни пишуваш .?
 
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А има ли црни Бугари-Црнци, за жолти Бугари сум слушнал па не мора за тоа да ни пишуваш .?
Има Бугари муслимани т.е. од различна религија. Немам заедничка религија со нив. На тоа мислев.
Автоматски споено мислење:

си мислиш американци сте, :zver:, и вие сте нашле некого да негирате,човек да ве жали со МАКЕДОНСКА гајда.
Американците немаат заедничко потекло, има и многу религии. Делиме многу поголемо заедничко потекло, подолга историја, постара култура и религиозно сме похомогени.
 
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A__

Супер модератор
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си мислиш американци сте, :zver:, и вие сте нашле некого да негирате,човек да ве жали со МАКЕДОНСКА гајда.
Автоматски споено мислење:


@roden не се смеј на секој пост на форумов што немаш што да кажеш, излези храбро од курвинската куќа каде те родила мајка ти и кажи што имаш да кажеш, грев е таму цел да го поминеш, земи воздух, забаорави го минатото на мајка ти и излези меѓу нормалниот свет.
Не заборавај дека блгарите си го трошат времето на македонски форум, а не обратно.

Си ги бараат татковците, не им замерај
 
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Не заборавај дека блгарите си го трошат времето на македонски форум, а не обратно.
Ова ми е најјако. Обачињата се зачленуваат на македонски форуми и си терат филмот со пропаганда и објаснувања додека сеуште незнам ниту еден што се зачленил на некој нивни форум да расправа на тема Македонци и Бугари. Ниту пак знам некој нивен форум.
И ти објаснуваат за искомплексираност. :icon_lol:
 

The xx

Russia state-affiliated bot. ☑️
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си мислиш американци сте, :zver:, и вие сте нашле некого да негирате,човек да ве жали со МАКЕДОНСКА гајда.
Автоматски споено мислење:


@roden не се смеј на секој пост на форумов што немаш што да кажеш, излези храбро од курвинската куќа каде те родила мајка ти и кажи што имаш да кажеш, грев е таму цел да го поминеш, земи воздух, забаорави го минатото на мајка ти и излези меѓу нормалниот свет.
Сиротиот во Германија живее.
 
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А има ли црни Бугари-Црнци, за жолти Бугари сум слушнал па не мора за тоа да ни пишуваш .?
Не само Црни, туку постоеле и Сребрени Бугари. Но не биле црнци.
 

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