siptar..tatar..i t.n..
Erevan можно было бы прочесть и как Arevan или
Arvan....KAVKAZKA VRSKA
Ево Буарче за твоите гени сега во Прашање е дали си Б'лгар или Србин или Укринец или кој знае кое словенско Козарско племе.
Ево како Гледа Светот на Тебе како "Македонец" :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krste_Misirkov
E3b1 comes from East Africa (Ethiopia, Somalia) and got to the Near East after the end of the Ice Age with the bearers of Afro-Asiatic (Semito-Hamitic) languages. Here they mixed with local Near Easterners. About 5700 BC, this Y-haplogroup (together with J2 and G) was brought to Europe from Asia Minor with the first agriculturalists. Today it is frequent in the southern Balkans and southern Italy, but its frequency decreases towards Central Europe (ca. 5%) and is virtually absent in North-Western Europe.
This quote describes the genetic composition of the slav macedonians,its course in time and its similarities with neighboring populations. What does it tell us? That the populations of Macedonian - Slavs are to be found near in a genetic scale with Greeks,populations in asia minor,southern italy and rest of the balkans. I dont see any greek claiming that the slav macedonians share common genes with northern europeans such as the scandinavians for example
Under no circumstance this proves any relation with ancient populations in our area.
The Macedonians have a following percentage of Y-haplogroups (male lineages): E3b1 21.4% , I1b 29% , J2 12.2% , R1a 14.7% , R1b 7.8%.
I1b (29%) and E3b1 21% makes a 50%. Both of those 2 alleles are common to slavs,first is to be found in dinaric populations,mostly in western balkans,(Bosnians as it is mentioned below),the latter one is typically slav,found across Russians,Poles etc.
So the results of the taken
sample (bear this in mind,as i will come into that later) show that 1 out of 2 slav macedonians are exactly that: SLAVS.
Strangily enouph,there is no mention of any Bulgarian gene pool,and any connection between the gene pool of the slav macedonians and the bulgarian one. If we had a similar report of the bulgarian DNA we could make a comparison and see any possible similarities and differencies. Omitted? Who knows.
R1b is an old paleolithic European Y-haplogroup from south-west France and Cantabria and is closely tied with the spread of the Magdalenian culture of “reindeer-hunters” after the end of the Ice Age. It could get to the Balkans most probably mainly with Celtic migrations and later during the Roman period.
From the comparison given above it can be concluded that modern Macedonians have a relatively minor (R1a+R1b 30%) percentage of Slavic blood and they are descendants of the neolithic inhabitants of the southern Balkans.
ON THE CONTRARY!! The above results show that R1a1 and R1b1 constitute ONLY a 21% circa COMBINED,a fact that suggests that those alleles are to be found ONLY IN MINOR numbers among the
TAKEN SAMPLE.
And a few general notes on the above repport:
Genetics are like statistics: Same research can be explained in different means:
I have a few questions to make: WHAT IS THE SAMPLE USED for this research? Where do the males come from? Out of 1,2 million slav macedonians,half of them are slavs as this report admits. What about the other half? What are the composite ethnic groups?
a sample of 681 men has been used. This is hardly representative in a genetic scale.
Does anyone doubts that the children taken during the greek civil war to Slav - Macedonians,brought up and raised there,having slavic conscioussness are not genetically greeks,or greek related at least?
I seriously doubt the uniformity of the sample,because there is no such reference. Nowhere is written what is the place of origin of the individuals tested,they could all be taken from the southern borders for all we know.
Currently we can’t say, how these lineages were distributed in the Balkans in ancient times, because they may be susceptible to accidental genetic drift. However, the numbers presented above may indicate that Greeks were “less European” than Macedonians as early as during the ancient times and their gene pool was later more diluted by contact with Western Mediterranean.
This is funny. A totally unfounded conclusion. There is no way we can result in such a statement for many scientific reasons,like :
1st: The time range is too large for us to admit that the gene pool has remained the same. There have been many genetic mutations,drifts in the area of balkans during the last 2,500 years,since the populations have been all mixed up considerably. There have been certainly several genetical drifts. This is easily explained as the Y chromosome,since it is smaller than the X one,is less likely to be subjected to mutations,BUT IF any mutations succeed,then the results are more obvious. And mutations certainly happened,undoubtedly.Unless they want to claim ancestry out of the Hominidae (Neaderthalensii) and make themselves look as the laughing stock of the international genetical and medical community,they cannot base their claims such long ago in time.
2nd: As posted above,we have no clue of the taken sample. Different samples taken from that country,and the results and conclusions made will be totally different. Slavic - Macedonia is constitute of many different ethnic groups,a genetical purity is simply ridiculous.Different results and conclusions can be made if we use a sample of Bitola residents or Ohrid,and a totally different one if we use one from the northern borders with Serbia,or north-western ones with Kossovo.
3rd and most important one:
As everybody can see the above report,it is full of questions marks.
”it MAY indicate, ….possibly….probably….” a thing that suggests that themselves are not confident enouph to base their claims on this genetic study.
Fact remains,that there is a PREDOMINANT slavic gene pool among them, over 50%,which in every sense proves their ethnic origin.
4th: I have noticed the institutes that made this report as well. If we exclude the Scottish one,the others have something in common. I will leave the readers to make their own conclusions
5TH:
Nevertheless,as a last notice,even if we have to accept the dubbious conclusions of this genetical report,i have to say that:
Genetics is a powerful tool and if it fells off in the wrong hands,then it can become dangerous. Claiming ancestry out of DNA composition is very much outdated,since it is rather culture,ethnic conscioussnes and historical memory that matters.
And the slav macedonians have no historical memory to the ancient ones prior to 17th century.Neither do they have any linguistical or cultural ties.
It is very important to note that membership in a particular haplogroup does not (by itself) indicate the ethnic group from which the patrilineal line derives. There is a lot of misinformation posted on the Internet in this regard. You can see such statements as “R1b means Celtic,” or “I1a means Viking.” While those two haplogroups are common in those two populations, they also occur in every country in Europe. It may be possible in the future that sufficient subgroup structure will be discovered that more precise origins will be indicated, but that is not presently possible.
A particular set of values for a set of STR or SNP markers is termed a “haplotype.” The repeat value of a particular STR marker is called an “allele,” and the distribution of values for a marker within a given haplogroup is called the allele frequency distribution.
STR (short tandem repeats) These are short, usually four-letter, sequences that are repeated between 8 and 36 times. The “value” at a particular marker or location is simply the number of times that the sequence is repeated. Y-chromosome testing is normally done by the commercial testing services on 12, 25, or 37 markers. The results of such testing is simply a set of 12, 25, or 37 two-digit (or occasionally one-digit) numbers. The region where the STRs are tested is a region of the Y-chromosome that has no biological function. It is thought to represent “junk DNA.” There are no medical or health issues connected to these, other than paternity, so there are no more privacy issues for this set of numbers than there is for the public awareness of ones surname.
It sometimes comes as a surprise to people when they first receive their Y test results to discover that the haplogroups are actually defined by a type of marker called unique event polymorphisms (UEPs) that are not normally tested by the commercial laboratories because of the expense. These biallelic (i.e., two-valued) markers are also called Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP). As the term UEP implies, changes in these markers occur (except very rarely) only once at a given Y-chromosome location in human history (ergo, the “unique” in UEP), and a new one pops up about every 7000 years in the regions of interest on the Y-chromosome. A mutation involves the substitution of one of the four subunits of DNA for another. There are 249 known haplogroups and subgroups. Major haplogroups are labeled (named) with the letters of the alphabet, while numerals and lower-case letters are used to designate the subgroups. For example, the most common subgroup in Europe is the R1b group, which is the 1b sub-haplogroup of the R haplogroup.
HAPLOGROUPS
Furthermore,the above research is yet another one argument of the contininuity of the gene pool among the greeks from Neolithic until modern times.
