Greece and Turkey Exchange Two Million of their People

[Misirkov]

Brat: ne se chita prviot post, premnogu e siten, a za vtoriot objasni shto pishuva na dokumentot bidejkji ne chitame grchki.

Grchkiot Premier Venizelos napishal pismo do grchkiot kral Konstantin vo januari 1915 god., vo koj jasno kazhuva deka Grcija saka da ja duplira teritorijata na Grcija so teritorii od Turcija - po zgrabuvanjeto na Makedonski teritorii so Balkanskite vojni vo 1912-13:

"I have the impression that the concessions to Greece in Asia Minor... would be so extensive that another equally large and not less rich Greece will be added to the doubled Greece which emerged from the victorious Balkan wars."

(Michael Llewellyn Smith, "Ionian Vision: Greece in Asia Minor, 1919-1922," pg. 35)

Eve da vidite kako Turcite gi tmanele grcite; tie shto se izbegale ili se "zameneti" podocna se doselile kaj nas da ni grabnat pola zemja:

 

[anaveno]

Турците ги таманеле ХРИСТИЈАНИТЕ. Турција и грција разменувале ХРИСТИЈАНСКО НАСЕЛЕНИЕ. МАЏИРИТЕ не знаеле ни збор грчки јазик.

Пропагандата на грците направи, сите избркани ХРИСТИЈАНИ од Турција, да бидат прикажани како грци.

Bпрочем,кој бил во Беломорска МК, ги видел фаците на Маџирите.

Bо сите документи кои постојат за размена на населението од почеток на 20 век до 50-60 г. од истиот, стои исто: размена на МУСЛИМАНСКО И ХРИСТИЈАНСКО НАСЕЛЕНИЕ. Hикакви ГРЦИ.

Bпрочем и Тито менуваше МУСЛИМАНИ од МК за Турција, а населуваше Албанци од Косово, и избрканите Егејци од Грција.

Маџирите беа вметнати во планот Мегали Идеа, кој е исто што и голема србија, голема албанија.

 

[Bratot]

Go zgolemiv fajlot Misirkov,mislam deka sega moze da procita, a za prevodot naskoro.Pozdrav

 

[Bratot]

Martin Baldwin-Edwards

"The Asia Minor atrocities and the ‘Exchange of Populations"

Toward the end of the Greek Army’s disastrous three-year Asia Minor campaign, the region’s Christian population fled as terrified refugees to various ports around the city of Smyrna in Asia Minor. The Turks entered Smyrna in September 1922 and eye-witness accounts testify to the violence and horrors which rapidly ensued – although not only from the Turkish side (Pentzopoulos, 1962: 46). Hundreds of thousands of refugees arrived at Greek ports, destitute, starving and desperate for assistance. Since the fighting had indirectly involved the Great Powers, an armistice was rapidly signed by the British (thus averting an Anglo-Turkish war) and there was a call for a peace conference at Lausanne. Such was the background to the Lausanne Conference and the Exchange of Population Conventions of 1923.

Throughout the Ottoman period, and despite the efforts of the ‘millet’ system to enforce different statuses according to religion (Roudometof, 1998), the population exhibited multiple and complex identities that ill-suited emerging nation-states such as Greece, Bulgaria and later Turkey. Language, for example, was not a defining feature: many Greeks in Asia Minor (known as Karamanli) actually spoke Turkish which they wrote in Greek script. Others spoke Greek but notated it in Arabic or Latin characters; and many ethnic groups, such as Vlach, spoke Greek but refused to be called Greeks.

Local
identities, or class identities, tended to be as important as language or ethnic identity. Even religion, which clearly divided the population into Muslim and Christian, was less divisive than might be imagined. Religion in the Balkans was to some extent a pragmatic issue, riddled with superstition whilst trying to minimise risk and hardship – at the extreme, representing a form of insurance rather than devotion to the religion’s fundamental beliefs. There was also significant intermarriage between Christians and Muslims, multiple conversions between religions and adoption of various Islamic practices by the Christian population (Mazower, 2003: 70-71). Throughout the Ottoman period, there was: A large number of ethnic groups… [with] intricacy, variability and fluidity of ethnic categorization and identification. (Vermeulen, 1984: 226)

According to the Treaty, all Turkish nationals of the Greek Orthodox religion established on Turkish territory (other than Constantinople) and all Greek nationals of Muslim religion established on Greek territory (other than the newly-acquired region of Western Thrace) were to be forcibly exchanged. Thus, the distinguishing criterion chosen for compulsory resettlement was exclusively that of religion: the result was that a minimum of 1.3 million Greeks were expelled from Turkey and some 500 000 Muslims were sent to Turkey. All were dispossessed of their property –- which, in the case of many of the bourgeois Greek refugees, was substantial -– and this loss of property was subsequently confirmed by the Ankara Treaty of 1930.

The Lausanne negotiations had left some 150-200 000 "Greeks" in Constantinople and a similar number of Muslims in Western Thrace; the Treaty stipulates the legal obligations and other conditions imposed on the country hosting each minority. These conditions still pertain.

Numerous repressive measures adopted by the Greek authorities, including the notorious removal of their Greek citizenship from those who dared to travel to Turkey, have inclined even the non-Turkish speaking component of the Minority into public identification as Turkish. Throughout the Ottoman period, Christians had informally referred to non-Arab Muslims (e.g. Kurds, Turks, Albanians) as "Turks" (Quataert, 2000: 173); despite this long tradition, such identification is prohibited under Greek law and they can only identify themselves as Muslims.

 

[Misirkov]

Veruvale ili ne, vakvata "razmena" ima istoriski presedan vo antikata, sprovedena od Spartanskiot Kral Leotikidas.

Razmenata se sluchuva po bitkite na Termopilite, na Salamis, na Platarea (vo Beotia) i na Mikale (kraj ostrovot Samos). Po poslednava bitka, se stvara Delianskata Liga so centar vo Atina, i Grcite stanuvaat pomorska sila. Togash Kral Leotikidas se odluchuva na razmena na narod od Azija.

Prof. Paul Cartledge od Univerzitetot Cambridge objasnuva vo svojata kniga "Termopilite" deka takviot poteg na kralot e kako da predviduval deka eden den kje se potpishe Dogovorot od Lozana:

" Indeed, in a trather suprising anticipation of the Treaty of Lausanne (CE 1923) he proposed as solution to the problem of the Greeks of Asia a compulsory exchange of populations: transplanting them to mainland Greece to take over the traitorous medizers who should be "cleansed" and forced to live in Asia where they spiritually belonged.

That then, is the background of war and empire of which I am going to look again in detail at the role in 480 BC of the Spartans as acknowledged leaders of "the Greeks" in resistance to the Persian invasion of Xerex. ..."

(Paul Cartledge, "Thermopylae," Vintage Books, A Division of Random House, Inc., New York, 2006, pg. 11)

 

[Bratot]

Brat: ne se chita prviot post, premnogu e siten, a za vtoriot objasni shto pishuva na dokumentot bidejkji ne chitame grchki.

Ovoj prevod go napravi Marianna od Vinozito,dokolku v trebaat prevodi na nekoi dokumenti od Grcki kaj mene na poraki.

Declaration of Property during the Greek-Turkish population exchange from Yena (Kaynarca) to Thessaloniki (16/12/1927).

"It is from a commission . which was examined the cases . of
the exchange of population between the Greeks and the Turks . but the name
of the applicant is not clear nether his place . only one is clear that
he/she lived in Solun .

By this document the commission informed the applicant not to make a
"application" because he probably would not have any benefit .."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ikis_Antallagis_Plythismon_sel1_19271216a.jpg

 

[Bratot]

As the Bishop of Florina (Lerin) Augostinos Kandiotis once said:

"If the hundreds of thousands of refugees had not come to Greece, Greek Macedonia would not exist today."

 

[Bratot]

http://www.istanbulguide.net/istguide/people/ethnies/turcsortho/grece.htm

Prevedeno od Francuski na Angliski:

It is impossible in Greece to quantify their number, but obviously, they are much more numerous in this country than are in Turkey. Greece recognizes only religious and nonethnic minorities.

Thus, the Albanians, the Macedonians and the Turks that are Christian Orthodox, do not appear in official statistics, which are not reliable in any event. However, despite the ethnic mixing that has occurred since the population exchanges at the beginning of the 20th century, one can estimate that nearly 800 000 are Karamanites in Greece, a geat portin of which has been hellenised. In fact, a former president of the Greek republic, was a Karamanite.

 

[Bratot]

Karamanlides are a Turkish-speaking ethnic group that are of Orthodox Christian faith.


They numbered seveal hundred thousand and lived in the Karaman region of Turkey (in the Central Anatolia) and their origin is debatable: Most evidence would point to them being Orthodox Greeks that adopted Turkish language however it has been raised that they are possibly Turks that converted to Christianity. The fact that they wrote the Turkish language with the Greek alphabet is an indicator that they were ethnic Greeks. A strong argument that they were ethnic Greeks would say that although they spoke Turkish and took their name from Karaman which is Turkish, it is quite unlikely that any Turk or Muslim would ever convert to christianity as under the Ottoman Sharia law such an action had the penalty of death. The sheer number of Karamanlides and the fact that their origins are in Anatolia, the heart of the Ottoman Empire would suggest that they were a large group of Christians given the choice of keeping their language or their faith as was common during the Ottoman Empire.


In the population exchanges between Greece and Turkey (1923), Turkey and Greece decided to exchange population based on religion, rather than on language, so all Muslims of Greece were deported to Turkey, while all Orthodox Christians of Turkey were deported to Greece.


Following this treaty, Greek-speaking Muslims (such as the Epirus and Cretan Muslims) were sent to Turkey and all Turkish-speaking Christians (including the Karamanlides) were sent to Greece.


The Karamanlides had no easy time in their new country, as they did not speak Greek, and during the dictatorship of Ioannis Metaxas, usage of Turkish in public was forbidden.

 

[n/a]

I umesto da zboram, pa da verglam, pa da se objasnuvam i doobjasnuvam, samo eden link za mozda nekoi od nas i da naucat kako se saka drzava:


Arkadaşlar bu hayvanlar barıştan ne anlar? Aralarında hala ATAmıza laf atan var Ьzgьnьm ama NO PEACE. NE MUTLU TЬRKЬM DİYENE !

ccccc...olosh.
Koj mi go pobugarci postot be...amanim ana...koga so turski bukvi ko covek si pishav sto mislev?

 

[Bratot]

Некој спомна дека Караманлидите се чувствувале како Грци?

Страна 31.

 

[anaveno]

Некој спомна дека Караманлидите се чувствувале како Грци? ...

Se si ima geneza..
kopaj..kopaj...ke najdes kopilinja

 

[feniks_m]

Околу 350.000 македонци од Егејска се заминати за ПИринска Македонија, и огромен дел во Бугарија. Денес многу малку од нив имаат македонска свест. Највеќето од нив потпаднале под бугарската пропаганда, се сметаат како Македонци, но како дел од Бугарската нација- тоа е жално.
Додека во Егејска огромен дел од нив знаат дека се македонци, но ќутат.

 

[Bratot]

Најстариот припадник на Караманите се исповеда:

The last surviving Karamanli, or Karamanlides in Greek, 98-year-old Stavros Farasopulos, says he misses his friends and his village back in Kayseri, and that he is proud to share his hometown with Turkish President Abdullah Gül.

Farasopulos was born in the village of Ağırnas in the eastern province of Kayseri in 1911 as a member of the local Karamanli community. Karamanli was a Greek Orthodox Christian community whose first language was Turkish written in the Greek alphabet and lived mainly in Kayseri’s Cappadocia region. Their name drives from the Karamanoğulları state that was based there before the growing Ottoman Empire annexed it in the mid-15th century.

The Karamanli community had to leave Turkey during the compulsory population exchange between Greece and Turkey in 1923 when transfer was solely based on religion, even though the Karamanlis’ first language was Turkish and most didn’t speak a word of Greek.

Farasopulos said he has missed his Turkish friends and his hometown since leaving it in 1924. He currently lives in Western Thrace, where his home is full of photos of Kayseri and one featuring President Abdullah Gül.

Among the mementos he keeps are letters dating back to when his family lived in Kayseri, letters in Turkish but written in the Greek alphabet.

Farasopulos’s eldest son, Nikos, speaks fluent Turkish. “My father brought me up as a proper Karamanli,” said Nikos.

When asked about his life in Ağırnas before 1922, Stavros Farasopulos said: “My best friends were Enver and Niyazi. Turkish was my mother tongue.”

Farasopulos then started talking about the period after World War I when Greece invaded Turkey.

“At that time, Greeks and Turks killed each other, but in my hometown nothing happened. That was because there was nothing that separated Turks from Greeks. During Turkey’s Independence War [1919-1922] I seldom saw a Turkish soldier in my village,” he said.

“I know my Kayseri and the Karamanlis. Turks, Greeks and Armenians are the same.”

Farasopulos said when he and his family first arrived in Greece he was discriminated against because the only language he could speak was Turkish.

Years later, in the 1960s, a friend from back in his village, Turan, came to visit Farasopulos in Greece. The first time Farasopulos went to his village after 1924 was in 1970. “When I went there in 1970, I was welcomed with open arms. I stayed there for two months. I didn’t want to leave. They later rebuilt the Ayi Anargri Church in the village. I thanked the mayor,” he said.

The last time he visited Ağırnas was in 2000. “I have grown old. I really want to visit my hometown but how can I?” he asked, citing his age.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=oldest-karamanli-misses-home-2009-08-03

 

[elninokv]

јас колку шо знам на времето плем,ето караманли кои биле православни и збореле турски.......отишле во грција додека нашите торбеши и други кои биле од егејот заминале во турција бидејки биле муслимеани и затоа сега има многу македонци во турција..........тоа ти е македонче, судбина............